Help Me Build a Disposable One-use Automatic Uzi

[Rogerborg]

OK, now I'm really intrigued.  I think we're talking different languages here and might have to find a common lexicon in the middle.

We're thinking in terms of what we know about airsoft guns and what they can do: we generally buy a fully complete package, most of them can already shoot BBs full auto, and the internals aren't generally swappable between different types of gun.  Electric guns tend to have gearboxes and motors that you might be able to repackage inside something else.  But with gas guns the body of the gun is generally functional and modification tends to be more about sticking cosmetics on them.

If I'm understanding you right, you want to create replicas of  a specific theatrical firearm (that's submachine gun sized), and have them be able to shoot BBs.  That's opposed to creating actual theatrical props for use on film.  Or did I get that wrong?

In either case, the clearer and more specific you can be, the better.  If you're making replicas of something that already exists, can you let us know what that is?  That might help us to suggest a base platform that you can modify, or something that has the most appropriate internals to repurpose.

 

[Airsoft_87]

Why does a movie prop need to fire BBs?  If you want something impossible to disassemble, that you need a bunch of and are cheap, sounds like you need some rubber prop guns and some editing skills to make it look like it's shooting.

It's a movie prop replica. The Hero prop fires blanks, I want mine to fire bb's.

 

[BigStew]

That is great, thanks!! And now, I ask you...what would you buy if you were to make a gun like that, same fire rate, using the cheapest parts available? (Only mechanism, not body) Would it be possible to reduce costs?

You are not getting any cheaper than that to buy the parts needed sperately would probably be 4 times the cost of buying the gun.

 

[Tackle]

Sorry, but this is one of those pointless threads, destined to never actually reach fruition.

View attachment 74798

 

[Adolf Hamster]

It's a movie prop replica. The Hero prop fires blanks, I want mine to fire bb's.

what purpose does firing bb's serve in terms of the filmmaking?

if you aren't using tracers then they're not gonna show up well on camera and i suspect requiring everyone on-set to be wearing eye protection might not be ideal.

as mentioned a static prop, some theatrical shaking of said prop, and some time in post effects adding muzzle flash would surely be preferable?

if it absolutely must be able to fire projectiles, then an off the shelf option is still going to be cheaper (especially if you sell it on after production) than trying to retrofit internals to a shell that doesn't have them.

 

[Rogerborg]

Sorry, but this is one of those pointless threads, destined to never actually reach fruition.

I'm sure you're right, but I'm invested now.

What I suspect is that OP isn't making movie props, but wants to make shootable copies of  a movie prop.

I'm not sure why, but given that we spend our weekends playing with toy guns, who are we to judge?

The thing is, most movie prop guns are based on real ones, so there probably is something that can be fettled into shape.

Whether it's realistic and achievable, especially on budget and given the current stock situation, is another question.

But dammit, I have to know.  

 

[Airsoft_87]

OK, now I'm really intrigued.  I think we're talking different languages here and might have to find a common lexicon in the middle.

We're thinking in terms of what we know about airsoft guns and what they can do: we generally buy a fully complete package, most of them can already shoot BBs full auto, and the internals aren't generally swappable between different types of gun.  Electric guns tend to have gearboxes and motors that you might be able to repackage inside something else.  But with gas guns the body of the gun is generally functional and modification tends to be more about sticking cosmetics on them.

If I'm understanding you right, you want to create replicas of  a specific theatrical firearm (that's submachine gun sized), and have them be able to shoot BBs.  That's opposed to creating actual theatrical props for use on film.  Or did I get that wrong?

In either case, the clearer and more specific you can be, the better.  If you're making replicas of something that already exists, can you let us know what that is?  That might help us to suggest a base platform that you can modify, or something that has the most appropriate internals to repurpose.

Ok. Ghost in The Shell 2017, there is a weapon that is a disposable one-use submachine. The one used in the movie is just an uzi that fires blanks with a shell to disguise it. I want to make a replica of that gun, but being faithful to the original design (image attached). It will be possible to be used just once, because the body I'm going to make won't be possible to be taken apart, so it can't be reloaded (not gas, battery, or bb's). I want to keep that part of the story in the weapon. So what worries me is just the guts of the weapon, because it just has to be pulling the trigger and that's it, because the actual weapon was just like that, simple, cheap.  I hope I've been clearer this time??

View attachment 74799

Sorry, but this is one of those pointless threads, destined to never actually reach fruition.

View attachment 74798

Thank you for your time anyway, Tackle! I knew it was going to be hard xD. 

 

[Adolf Hamster]

ahh so you're not making this to use as a film prop, you just want to make a replica of a prop.

i'm still not getting why it needs to be one use, would be easy enough to drop an aep into that kind of shell and have hidden access for reloading the magazine/changing the battery.

edit: i mean just to throw this out there, but if the real prop was a blankfiring uzi in a shell then it too would have needed access to load the magazine and operate the action, i doubt health and safety would have been happy with the idea of live props sitting around waiting for their scene.

edit 2: what are you planning to use this for? if you want to use it for airsoft then it's gonna be pretty useless without the ability to reload, and if you're not planning on firing it then why does it need to fire?

 

[Airsoft_87]

53 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

Well, you've certainly intrigued us.  I'm still not entirely sure what you need them to do that they don't already do.

If it's actually Uzis you're after, they're pretty rare, and Tokyo Marui never did a "mini" Uzi as far as I'm aware (other than the teeny tiny toy one).

If it's something mini-Uzi-like (for the purposes of Joe Viewer) then the electric Jing Gong JG.0452 Mac-10 will shoot BBs on full auto.  Or the green gas HFC HG-203 Mac-11 will also full auto on gas, with a recoil action.

One issue at the moment is stock levels, which remain low.  You might have to settle for whatever you can find.

No moving parts or recoil needed

 

[BigStew]

Ok. Ghost in The Shell 2017, there is a weapon that is a disposable one-use submachine. The one used in the movie is just an uzi that fires blanks with a shell to disguise it. I want to make a replica of that gun, but being faithful to the original design (image attached). It will be possible to be used just once, because the body I'm going to make won't be possible to be taken apart, so it can't be reloaded (not gas, battery, or bb's). I want to keep that part of the story in the weapon. So what worries me is just the guts of the weapon, because it just has to be pulling the trigger and that's it, because the actual weapon was just like that, simple, cheap.  I hope I've been clearer this time??

View attachment 74799

Thank you for your time anyway, Tackle! I knew it was going to be hard xD. 

Judging by the scale those look like mini Uzis not full size Uzis. Your best bet maybe to go on a prop forum and ask if some one has made a replica or 3d printable file.  This might be a better base gun  https://bbguns4less.co.uk/products/blackviper-micro-uzi-electric-bb-gun-in-clear.html it just won't shoot very good. I just don't see this being a cheap build but good luck.

 

[Neptune]

If you really are concerned about dimensions, then getting a KWS Mini UZI is probably best, but not the cheapest. Otherwise you're going to have to do a lot of work to get the right shape.

Having it only fire in 1 setting is odd, do you really need it to fire? What if something goes wrong and it doesn't work, are you going to throw it away and build another one? I get that in the movie that's how it functions, but you don't need to replicate it's function, just it's aesthetics surely...

If the real weapon in the movie fired, I can guarantee that it could be taken apart since it will be a live firearm. The picture above shows a clam style casing that comes apart.

 

[Greg147]

If you can make the outer shell, sticking an AEP inside it would be the only option I think (other than going gas). They can be picked up for £50-£60 or so:

https://www.patrolbase.co.uk/airsoft-pistols-all?*8=9

If it was me, I'd probably buy one KWC mini-uzi, vacuum form the shell using it, and use that to make the outer casing for as many as you need. Fix an AEP in each one, and seal it up. Then paint and finish. It wouldn't be particularly cheap though, and I think you'd struggle to make one from scratch for any cheaper. 

 

[hitmanNo2]

I don't think you've considered a fictional, mass produced, single use firearm doesn't transfer well to a one off, bespoke, disposable airsoft gun.  How do you envisage testing it?  Or will that be your one and done single use?  "Oh, it didn't work.  What a waste of 10 hours.  In the bin in goes".

 

[Rogerborg]

i'm still not getting why it needs to be one use

Collectability. Same reason that unboxed collectables are worth more.  I can actually see the nerd appeal of something that could only be used once, but never has been.

OK, for that I'd ideally go with the KWC Mini-Uzi, cut the barrel down slightly, chop the sights off the top and use very thin kydex to mould two clamshell halves to stick around it, hoping that you'd pick up the details.  I wouldn't be that hopeful though, I'd expect they vacuum formed that movie one.

Then modify the charging knob, although it's got more travel than shown on that movie prop.  Fill the magazine with BBs and epoxy it in place.  You'd still need to put a CO2 bulb in, but you'd only get the one mag out of it.

I'm not sure how you'd do that yellow safety pull-out, as it goes right through the shooty bits.

The cheaper option is to buy a toy Uzi, e.g. https://www.amazon.co.uk/NET-TOYS-Uzi-Machine-Gun/dp/B009RNMV9E and then try to get the internals from an AEP based gun like the Jing Gong Mac-10, Well M4 or an actual CYMA electric pistol into it. Then you could charge and fit the battery, glue in the mag, and you're done.  Absolutely no promises on that: parts from one gun are not guaranteed to fit inside any other, and you need some structure inside there to keep everything square and usable.

It's a peculiar thing to do, but tell me that you've never bought an airsoft gun just to hang on the wall or keep in a bag.  

 

[Adolf Hamster]

It's a peculiar thing to do, but tell me that you've never bought an airsoft gun just to hang on the wall or keep in a bag.  

nope, every gun i've ever bought has been expected to be skirmished.

there are only 2 exceptions:

first is the unknown brand usp i got many years ago, because it never worked well enough to field (bearing in mind i've fielded a WE luger)

second is my latest e&k ak74u as i haven't been out since finishing the build, but it has been test fired and will be fielded.

 

[Neptune]

Collectability. Same reason that unboxed collectables are worth more.  I can actually see the nerd appeal of something that could only be used once, but never has been.

But how do you know if it's been used or not? The only way to find out is to try and fire it.

But you also have the problem with the battery running flat over time, or the gas leaking out, either way at some point it just won't fire regardless if it's been used or not. Which is why it should be either non-functioning, or be able to dismantle and reload again.

 

[AK47frizzle]

"I have no knowledge or understanding of what i'm doing but I want this custom design that nobody knows of or has done before to be the cheapest of the cheapest, cheapest, cheap, cheapest, of the cheapest."

Your best option imo is to get someone to 3D model that clamshell uzi and design it in a way to fit an aeg gearbox inside. And none of that is going to be cheap. Why not just make the clamshell and do some special effects? What is even the point of it firing BBs? You'll just make it look like some 2008 youtube nerf war.

 

[Rogerborg]

But how do you know if it's been used or not? The only way to find out is to try and fire it.

You'd shrink-wrap the shrink-wrapped replica.  

But you also have the problem with the battery running flat over time, or the gas leaking out, either way at some point it just won't fire regardless if it's been used or not. Which is why it should be either non-functioning, or be able to dismantle and reload again.

Oh, sure, it's an awful idea.  I can still see the appeal to a certain sort of collector.

"I have no knowledge or understanding of what i'm doing but I want this custom design that nobody knows of or has done before to be the cheapest of the cheapest, cheapest, cheap, cheapest, of the cheapest."

Your best option imo is to get someone to 3D model that clamshell uzi and design it in a way to fit an aeg gearbox inside. And none of that is going to be cheap. Why not just make the clamshell and do some special effects? What is even the point of it firing BBs? You'll just make it look like some 2008 youtube nerf war.

Oh, it'll never happen, but the glorious pointlessness of it is why I want to be wrong.

 

[Tommikka]

There are 3 core Uzi designs - Uzi, Mini Uzi & Micro Uzi.  In Ghost in the shell they used Mini Uzis and the Skinny man version is a mini Uzi inside a shell.

The original movie prop isn't sealed, its a two piece shroud that's screwed/bolted in place.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzi#Mini_Uzi_carbine

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Ghost_in_the_Shell_(2017)#Skinny_Man_Uzi

https://us.propstoreauction.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/151/lot/33628/?url=%2Fview-auctions%2Fcatalog%2Fid%2F151%2F%3Fpage%3D3%26fbclid%3DIwAR2eMBVGQ14UooOpaaKGwGpRiJXlFfuz7AAmEQPiTyVJ2aP4VZI-kRgJL3k%26items%3D100

Whether it shoots or not, by making a copy of the movie prop you are either manufacturing or modifying a RIF (That is something that the average person might think is a firearm.). The legislation that will apply is the VCRA.

Unless the purpose is one of the approved defences you would commit an offence by manufacturing/modifying - but nobody knows what you do in private.

As you are making a number of them then this could imply you are selling them, which is again an offence if you sell to someone without a defence.

These offences are committed by the seller, not the buyer and carry a considerable fine.

Defences are - airsoft skirmishing, theatrical & film, reenactment, museums, & crown servants as prt of their duties.

All of the above need to be at suitable venues and under Public Liability Insurance.

If for a stage production, or film work (not YouTube) as part of a proper group then thats fine.

Other common use for movie props are collectors & cosplayers.  Neither of which are legal defences under the VCRA.

(Professional Cosplay can qualify as theatrical, but turning up a a ComicCon as a ticketholder doesn't.)

All UK ComicCons also have rules for attendees that restrict the look & function - they are not permitted to shoot

(Even ComicCons that are 'tied' to the seller of the 'Cosplay defence' have rules that prevent attendees from having the RIFs that they would buy with that membership - but everyone knows that the Cosplay defence is a made up scheme to ignore the law and pretend to be legal)

You can ignore the VCRA if you use a firearm (as a real firearm is not an imitation) An airgun is a real firearm and does not need a licence (except certain parts of the UK) but does still have restrictions on age and methods of sale/delivery.

If you make a functioning one off that's sealed, then anyone possessing it are likely to be committing multiple offences under firearms legislation.

There is an exemption from firearms legislation if specific airsfot criteria is adhered (VCRA still applies) but if its not for airsoft then it becomes a low power air weapon (air gun) and though not licensed the firearms act does apply.

If minors have access to the property then its an offence to not have it securely locked away, transporting a loaded air weapon is an offence (loaded includes just one BB or pellet, or being aired up.  Possessing an air weapon or an airsoft gun in a public place without good reason is an offence, even just posting it to your buyers would be an offence.

Explain what you are actually intending to do, because that can reassure and let people understand the question

 

[RavenUK]

Let me know how the robbery went ?