Green Gas Pressure

[emilianoksa]

I have watched plenty of video reviews of TM plastic pistols over the years.

Retailers generally advise the use of 144a gas with them.

However quite a few reviewers say things like: I use Abbey Predator Ultra gas instead of green gas in my TM pistols. I have heard it said that the Ultra is not as powerful as green gas, yet I always thought Ultra was green gas - maybe not quite as powerful as something like Nuprol 2.0 but green gas nonetheless.

I have also heard that Nuprol 1.0 works better with TM pistols than 144a. And is a bit more powerful. 

I know most owners go ahead and use Nuprol 2.0 in their TM pistols, but it wasn't my intention to get into a discussion about that.

It is just frustrating that manufacturers don't put the psi of their gas on the cans. It would be a more reliable indicator of power than word of mouth. 

What makes one gas more powerful than another? I thought propane was the base ingredient in all airsoft gas. 

 

[Adolf Hamster]

I think the pressure differences are a mix of propane/butane, the ratio determining the pressure, although i dont have any factual evidence to validate that theory.

Do agree on the pressure, even if just at a standard temperature.

I have had the odd thought experiment about what other gases might be good candidates, obv propane/butane are easily sourced being so commonly used in various industrial applications but there must surely be something with a lower boiling point that could handle the cold without going to the levels of co2.

 

[emilianoksa]

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Impulse]

I tend to just use Nuprol 2.0 when it's cold, or ASG ultrair if it's really cold and my TM pistols seem to work decently enough in the winter. Will never go higher than that in my blowbacks on the fear that they will explode, even when it's cold.

 

[Guest]

The problem with pressure definition is multifaceted. 
 

The pressure in the can is pretty irrelevant. The pressure in the mag is somewhat irrelevant.

It’s analogous to the pressure in an air tank. In those, the regulator ensures the same pressure is expelled from the tank no matter what pressure is actually in it, unless it’s almost empty.

Whilst the process is totally different in a gas gun ( mag pressure drops off as we know ), the design of the mag, valves, gas routers, nozzles, jet valves, springs and seals all together make a difference to the gas pressure “in” the gun.

Also, the amount of “stuff” mixed in with the propane in the green gas affects its pressure in the can, AND as it’s expelled from the can into the mag. AND how much fluid vs gas is in the mag. Other gases and silicone all make a difference to the pressure as well.

After all that waffle, what I’m saying is, it depends. Which is why, mostly, gas manufacturers don’t list the gas pressure. What’s OK for one gun might not be OK for another.

TM FNX-45 will happily run on red gas in the middle of a normal English summer, a TM G18C will eventually  destroy it’s slide if you use Nuprol 2.

it also varies across guns. I’m a nerd about KWA Vectors, which are all getting on a bit now. Using HPA at 60psi some will cycle perfectly all day, others need 110-115 psi to run reliably.

Swiss Arms silicone free green gas has 150psi on the bottle, the silicone version says it’s 130psi

 

[novioman]

The Vorsk gasses are good and state the p.s.i 

Abbey Ultra is a green gas, but not as powerful as some. I only own steel pistols, but find abbey ultra runs the majority of them in summer, and indeed winter if the mags are warmed, if warming’s not possible I use the Vorsk gasses. 

 

[Guest]

The Vorsk gasses are good and state the p.s.i 

Abbey Ultra is a green gas, but not as powerful as some. I only own steel pistols, but find abbey ultra runs the majority of them in summer, and indeed winter if the mags are warmed, if warming’s not possible I use the Vorsk gasses. 

Vorsk are hugely over powered for a normal gun

 

[novioman]

They start at 175 p.s.i, not over powered for a metal slide, agreed not suitable for plastic. 

 

[emilianoksa]

Thanks for all the replies.

 

[Madhouse]

Having recently got a TM pistol I'm doing a bit of an experiment, so have a few different gasses ordered.

When my FNX arrived I loaded a mag and chrono'd it on the gas that was in it on arrival. First shot was 293fps / 0.80j then a steady 270 / 0.7 (ish) until it ran out after 12 shots. So then I lobbed some Abbey 144a in and it averaged around 240fps / 0.53j, which made me think that TM aren't using a particularly low powered gas when they are making the mags ... so does that mean the pistol's built for stronger gas or do TM just use whatever gas they have at the factory to test fill their mags on manufacture?

Then there's comments much like those on here where people have been happily using green gas for years with no ill-effects on the pistol.

Long story short, I've got small cans of Abbey Ultra, Nuprol 1.0 and Nuprol 2.0 on the way and I'm planning on seeing what kind of power difference I get between them. Will see where we end up in terms of the gas I use long term after that.

 

[Cr0-Magnon]

The gas already in the mag was probably from when the retailer tested it, prior to sending.

I've used Abbey Predator Ultra, since Luke at Negative Airsoft recommended it.

It's simple though. Wear is caused by every use, in warmer weather it'll probably run fine on Nuprol 1.0 and wear slower. It'll be snappier and more powerful on 2.0 or Abbey Ultra and wear that bit quicker. 

I will add though, I did a test the other week when it was particularly cold (around 2C), using Nuprol 3.0. I left my mag out in the garden for a couple of hours. On shooting it didn't feel overpowered and only chronoed around the expected 300fps. So yeah, up to the individual to decide on what they want from it based on ambient temperature and how bothered they are about parts wearing sooner (which higher powered gas will always do).

 

[RostokMcSpoons]

I'm also using Nuprol 1.0 and Abbey Ultra, in my TM 5.1 DOR.   (It's one of the TM's with a larger gas unit, so may be more forgiving with its gas)

The Abbey stuff has worked great outdoors in cold weather, giving me ~250fps iirc.  Plenty enough power for close quarters engagements.
And for the sake of longevity for my gun when it's warm from being indoors, I use the Nuprol for my garden plinking.  Also plenty powerful enough for that.

It's not so much 'wear' as the fear that the slide slamming back and forth too hard might cause a fracture and then break in the slide, isn't it?  So using the appropriate gas for the ambient temp seems sensible if you're risk-averse (i.e. don't want to be bothered sourcing a new slide) 

 

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

I use Green in the summer and Red in the winter.   

I didn't know know better when I first bought my pistol.  Every one else used Green so I did too.  

The Red is needed to operate the thing in cold weather.   For the amount of use it gets (next to none) I'm not worrying.   

 

[Guest]

Having recently got a TM pistol I'm doing a bit of an experiment, so have a few different gasses ordered.

When my FNX arrived I loaded a mag and chrono'd it on the gas that was in it on arrival. First shot was 293fps / 0.80j then a steady 270 / 0.7 (ish) until it ran out after 12 shots. So then I lobbed some Abbey 144a in and it averaged around 240fps / 0.53j, which made me think that TM aren't using a particularly low powered gas when they are making the mags ... so does that mean the pistol's built for stronger gas or do TM just use whatever gas they have at the factory to test fill their mags on manufacture?

Then there's comments much like those on here where people have been happily using green gas for years with no ill-effects on the pistol.

Long story short, I've got small cans of Abbey Ultra, Nuprol 1.0 and Nuprol 2.0 on the way and I'm planning on seeing what kind of power difference I get between them. Will see where we end up in terms of the gas I use long term after that.

The TM FNX has a very robust bbu and very thick plastic slide. You can run it in red no problem, but I run mine on green

 

[Pollynator_bravo2]

I don’t know if you can see the blend of gas but Butane is most effective and efficient at high temperatures where as propane is good all round but not efficient plus it’s more expensive. I’m very cold temperatures butane is about as much use as a cart horse with no legs