Finally someone is talking sense re socialism and fascism ; same coin, different faces.
Unfortunately human nature is thus; losers scream fascist, winners cry democracy.
And unfortunately liberalism is demolishing our society by the back door, brick by brick.
and yes it sucks we gotta pay more for our toys, but what price is sovereignty, and pride in refusing any longer to be the third highest paying nation, in a quango where we are small and have no voice, and are dictated to by people who do not follow their own rules.
buy from British airsoft shops!
save our British airsoft shops!
Ps my boy received his patrol base parcel today like four days after order. Big up.
As people have mentioned all this vitriol currently going around is just polarising society. Rather than calling each other facists and commies why don’t people work together to come up with ways of improving it?
Don’t get me wrong I exercise my right each and every time.
I can just see the shit show it’s turning into. 90% of mouthy Tory supporters I encountered spouted media untruths as facts and couldn’t tell me which part of the actual Tory manifesto they agreed with as their opinions were based on what they read on Facebook, saw in the daily star or heard down the pub or were not Tory supporters they just believed what they heard about JC and were against him from the same sources as above.
just look at America right now
things need to change but I don’t believe they will.
Funny thing is you say “”90% of mouthy Tory ;blah blah” but I’m pretty sure an awful lot of people would say EXACTLY the same thing about 90% of the socialist ideology supporters they met too , just As nasty and just as aggressive as the Tory fans to anyone who wouldn’t follow there way of thinking only real difference is there bile and hatred of the other side came from mirror image sources to the right-wingers but no real difference in content .
No I think you will find most hate comrade Corbyn because he really is a terrorist loving anti-semitic c**t .
Finally someone is talking sense re socialism and fascism ; same coin, different faces.
Unfortunately human nature is thus; losers scream fascist, winners cry democracy.
And unfortunately liberalism is demolishing our society by the back door, brick by brick.
and yes it sucks we gotta pay more for our toys, but what price is sovereignty, and pride in refusing any longer to be the third highest paying nation, in a quango where we are small and have no voice, and are dictated to by people who do not follow their own rules.
buy from British airsoft shops!
save our British airsoft shops!
Ps my boy received his patrol base parcel today like four days after order. Big up.
Liberalism in the American sense I assume you mean then, because in the classical sense liberalism is almost entirely about the right to self-determination. It's not a dirty word unless you don't really know what it means.
Liberalism in the American sense I assume you mean then, because in the classical sense liberalism is almost entirely about the right to self-determination. It's not a dirty word unless you don't really know what it means.
Because that’s no fun , so now I’m ‘offended’ and you need to be cancelled for offending me !
??
Funny thing is you say “”90% of mouthy Tory ;blah blah” but I’m pretty sure an awful lot of people would say EXACTLY the same thing about 90% of the socialist ideology supporters they met too , just As nasty and just as aggressive as the Tory fans to anyone who wouldn’t follow there way of thinking only real difference is there bile and hatred of the other side came from mirror image sources to the right-wingers but no real difference in content .
No I think you will find most hate comrade Corbyn because he really is a terrorist loving anti-semitic c**t .
This partly may point though. The media made it out that JC was going to let the terrorists in and allow the country to be opened up to all who wanted to come over like it was a gold rush free for all money grab of our resources. A quick fact check and a read of the manifesto would soon put all of that to rest.
But the media turned the whole general election into a popularity contest between Boris who was shown as the saviour going to stop tens of billions a week being sent to Europe and take back control of our country with NO explanation as to how or where all this money was going vs JC who was this terrorist poster boy. no facts on either side were true and it was all stirred up into something it should never have been
It was NEVER about anyone voting for their local MP which a general election should be, it was all Boris (good) vs JC (evil) and thats that.
For the record I didnt think JC would have made a strong or good enough prime minister, but I will attempt to keep my personal views on politics out of here as debates around this stuff do tend to get personal I am just talking about how messed up it all is with the media and misinformation and people repeating others hateful rhetoric like its the baseline established fact when we all know what you read on facebook in mostly untrue.
They are changing ? I have seen the changes in the attitude of the American police.more and more bad cops are being rounded up and sent packing.corrupt officials are running scared because of the actions of a dedicated group of people who have had enough.
It can be done,change can be brought about by the electorate.
Me too, I saw a total change in stance in Washington with the police right now.
Full combat gear wearing special forces soldier looking police lining the streets when BLM arranged a peaceful protest labelled a riot in the media who were beating on protesters vs some 4ft female officer in a bike helmet pushing back a load of camo wearing confederate flag waving 'protesters' who was trespassing on property after gaining illegal entry and likely inciting violence inside a restricted building.
If that was any other group of people yesterday I am confident the army would have been called in to restore order or a hell of a lot more shots would have been fired.
This is called populism and it historically rarely ends well.
Distilling down political aims and social values to the point that you can condense them into the perspectives of a single person. When you start missing the nuance you're in for a bad time. There's at least one person in this very thread who looks to have spent a little bit too much time on the internet last year.
Interesting. So you are implying Democracy is a bad thing because you didn't get the outcome you wanted?
I don't remember the late '90s/early '00's as halcyon times. Two costly wars, huge public spending, financial collapse and a cute note left in Whitehall - 'there's no money left'.
But hey, that's all OK! Labour wouldn't have given us a referendum.
I won't comment further on this, consider the above rhetorical - this thread should remain as useful information for post-Brexit buying and not politics, but previous comments whinging about the outcome of two Democratic voting processes deserve a little push-back.
vvvvvvvvv E: Also if you can't be arsed with reading all of this... Fair play vvvvvvvvvv
Forgive me for getting back into this - not necessarily to have the last word, but because it's picked up on 'Democracy' - Fun word and everyone understands the concept I think, but there are nuances that should be covered here, specifically subtypes of democracy etc. Apologies if I'm going over stuff you know already. Plus the thread's now fully mad lol so might as well carry it on
In short - I support the concept of democracy. I hope everyone does!
In the UK, we currently have "Representative Democracy" - that is to say the people broadly elect representatives for their constituency. So I voted for my local MP last election on the basis that I trust he's going to sort out the shitty recycling scheme in my local area or apply his experience to a more national/global level. Or I vote for councillors to be total fucking loons.
Crucially though, all power lies with them - I've elected them, but now it's up to them to represent me and make decisions for me. If I'm unhappy with theirperformance, my only recourse is to vote for a different candidate when the next election comes around. This tends to broadly work very well.
This is the system that most countries in the world follow, and referendums - to an extent - do not work within a representative democracy. I believe that the reason a referendum was pushed for, so consistently within the ERG (a small faction in the Conservative party) was because they knew they'd never be able to force the vote within their party or Parliament - they'd been trying for 3 decades!
It's far easier to manipulate the public and get them to make the decision - I'm sure we'd all agree politicians are generally liars. And there were some absolute howlers from, imo, both sides of the argument re: Brexit - you had that classic £350m claim from Leave, which was utter bullshit and they knew it at the time, and I think there was some credence to the whole "Project Fear" shit where some negative effects or worries were exaggerated etc. to try and scare people who knew nothing into remaining.
Referendums are an example of "Direct" democracy though- "The will of the people" as you've no doubt seen plastered across various tabloids over the last 5 years.
Most countries don't really mess around with direct democracy much, but when they do there tends to be a little more control over the referendum i.e. a minimum turnout required to guarantee legitimacy, but some countries have referendums that are actually binding. One example I really like is Switzerland - they have a very specific, careful process to ensure that every referendum turns out well:
^^ This booklet is given to every voting citizen every time referendums are held. It's controlled by an impartial organisation within their parliament, and rejects any points made by either side of the argument if they're found to be misleading, untrue etc.
The booklet goes into the issue, *in depth*, explaining the history, the current situation, upsides, downsides etc.
And honestly, that's what I would've wanted for this ref. If we had held such a ref, ensuring that everyone actually understands the EU, where it sucks, where it's great etc. I would've respected the result a lot more. But as we didn't, and we wouldn't, I don't believe the referendum was helpful. It's resulted in an argument that's going to, I think, continue for decades. Which isn't great for unity etc.
This is called populism and it historically rarely ends well.
Distilling down political aims and social values to the point that you can condense them into the perspectives of a single person. When you start missing the nuance you're in for a bad time. There's at least one person in this very thread who looks to have spent a little bit too much time on the internet last year.
I completely agree, sadly we seen this egomaniacal cult throughout society these days be it through the normal media or social media. It seems to me to always be a case of if your not with me you are my enemy, and politicians aren't doing enough to stop this hateful vitriol. The difficulty these days is seeing things objectively when everything is portrayed as right or wrong by the most influential in society. Thinking back to the bad old days of the cold war even then people where broadly more aligned with there views or maybe i see it through rose tinted glasses. All i can say with honesty with the way the world is going i fear for my children's futures.
This partly may point though. The media made it out that JC was going to let the terrorists in and allow the country to be opened up to all who wanted to come over like it was a gold rush free for all money grab of our resources. A quick fact check and a read of the manifesto would soon put all of that to rest.
But the media turned the whole general election into a popularity contest between Boris who was shown as the saviour going to stop tens of billions a week being sent to Europe and take back control of our country with NO explanation as to how or where all this money was going vs JC who was this terrorist poster boy. no facts on either side were true and it was all stirred up into something it should never have been
It was NEVER about anyone voting for their local MP which a general election should be, it was all Boris (good) vs JC (evil) and thats that.
For the record I didnt think JC would have made a strong or good enough prime minister, but I will attempt to keep my personal views on politics out of here as debates around this stuff do tend to get personal I am just talking about how messed up it all is with the media and misinformation and people repeating others hateful rhetoric like its the baseline established fact when we all know what you read on facebook in mostly untrue.
I must confess im not a fan a of Corbyn however being seen to friendly/sympathetic with IRA/PLO etc really doesn't help even if some of it was embellish by the media. The photos were quite damming if i remember correctly however please correct me if i am wrong. I would equate it similar to Trump not condemning some far right extremist. However its a catch 22 which ever you do you will get destroyed by the media, there are no moderate voices anymore in my opinion.
All the IRA stuff always seemed like a red herring to me - I'd see ppl condemning Corbyn for ties, but being perfectly happy with a close UK/US relationship, when US politicans tend to lean very pro-Ireland/IRA
All the IRA stuff always seemed like a red herring to me - I'd see ppl condemning Corbyn for ties, but being perfectly happy with a close UK/US relationship, when US politicans tend to lean very pro-Ireland/IRA
Great point and great photo. One picture and we all say he is in bed with them however no context. Maybe Corbyn did support the IRA maybe he didn't quite honestly he can make his own views about what he does. Its like your missus seeing a photo of you standing next to another women, does it mean you are sleeping with her?
It probably was a red Herring to discredit him, thing is it worked for a lot of people. When Chamberlain met Hitler and shock his hand did that make him a nazi?
This is called populism and it historically rarely ends well.
Distilling down political aims and social values to the point that you can condense them into the perspectives of a single person. When you start missing the nuance you're in for a bad time. There's at least one person in this very thread who looks to have spent a little bit too much time on the internet last year.
Distilling down political aims and social values to the point that you can condense them into the perspectives of a single person. When you start missing the nuance you're in for a bad time. ... can someone please arrange these words into something that actually has meaning?
Oh and Jeremy and his mate John did a non prosecution deal with known baddies, put flowers on hezbollah graves, and refuse to answer when asked if he’d do what takes to defend the uk if the shit hit the fan.
amazing what you can find out when spend a lot time living in the real world guys!
vvvvvvvvv E: Also if you can't be arsed with reading all of this... Fair play vvvvvvvvvv
Forgive me for getting back into this - not necessarily to have the last word, but because it's picked up on 'Democracy' - Fun word and everyone understands the concept I think, but there are nuances that should be covered here, specifically subtypes of democracy etc. Apologies if I'm going over stuff you know already. Plus the thread's now fully mad lol so might as well carry it on
In short - I support the concept of democracy. I hope everyone does!
In the UK, we currently have "Representative Democracy" - that is to say the people broadly elect representatives for their constituency. So I voted for my local MP last election on the basis that I trust he's going to sort out the shitty recycling scheme in my local area or apply his experience to a more national/global level. Or I vote for councillors to be total fucking loons.
Crucially though, all power lies with them - I've elected them, but now it's up to them to represent me and make decisions for me. If I'm unhappy with theirperformance, my only recourse is to vote for a different candidate when the next election comes around. This tends to broadly work very well.
This is the system that most countries in the world follow, and referendums - to an extent - do not work within a representative democracy. I believe that the reason a referendum was pushed for, so consistently within the ERG (a small faction in the Conservative party) was because they knew they'd never be able to force the vote within their party or Parliament - they'd been trying for 3 decades!
It's far easier to manipulate the public and get them to make the decision - I'm sure we'd all agree politicians are generally liars. And there were some absolute howlers from, imo, both sides of the argument re: Brexit - you had that classic £350m claim from Leave, which was utter bullshit and they knew it at the time, and I think there was some credence to the whole "Project Fear" shit where some negative effects or worries were exaggerated etc. to try and scare people who knew nothing into remaining.
Referendums are an example of "Direct" democracy though- "The will of the people" as you've no doubt seen plastered across various tabloids over the last 5 years.
Most countries don't really mess around with direct democracy much, but when they do there tends to be a little more control over the referendum i.e. a minimum turnout required to guarantee legitimacy, but some countries have referendums that are actually binding. One example I really like is Switzerland - they have a very specific, careful process to ensure that every referendum turns out well:
^^ This booklet is given to every voting citizen every time referendums are held. It's controlled by an impartial organisation within their parliament, and rejects any points made by either side of the argument if they're found to be misleading, untrue etc.
The booklet goes into the issue, *in depth*, explaining the history, the current situation, upsides, downsides etc.
And honestly, that's what I would've wanted for this ref. If we had held such a ref, ensuring that everyone actually understands the EU, where it sucks, where it's great etc. I would've respected the result a lot more. But as we didn't, and we wouldn't, I don't believe the referendum was helpful. It's resulted in an argument that's going to, I think, continue for decades. Which isn't great for unity etc.
I think the problem is that we as a country have become lazy and apathetic! We will sit on our arses,moan and groan about our lot and who we voted for and that's it. Sure we vote for someone else next time but we know in the backs of our minds that they will be the same so we will sit on our arses and moan and groan again lol.
If you get a plumber to fix your tap and he does a crap job do you moan and groan about it and get another plumber? Sure you dont,you complain to him till he puts it right.
If we don't like something get up and do something about it.
This partly may point though. The media made it out that JC was going to let the terrorists in and allow the country to be opened up to all who wanted to come over like it was a gold rush free for all money grab of our resources. A quick fact check and a read of the manifesto would soon put all of that to rest.
But the media turned the whole general election into a popularity contest between Boris who was shown as the saviour going to stop tens of billions a week being sent to Europe and take back control of our country with NO explanation as to how or where all this money was going vs JC who was this terrorist poster boy.
For the record I didnt think JC would have made a strong or good enough prime minister, but I will attempt to keep my personal views on politics out of here as debates around this stuff do tend to get personal I am just talking about how messed up it all is with the media and misinformation and people repeating others hateful rhetoric like its the baseline established fact when we all know what you read on facebook in mostly untrue.
I do believe for many it wasn’t that he was going to open up the country etc etc , it was the way he takes no responsibility for anything he’s done or said in the past or the present that’s turned so many people against him . His apparent love of a lot of terrorist groups is well documented no one can deny it , his blatant anti-Semitic behavior again well documented and he’s completely refuses to take ownership of any of it that’s what so many hated about him. Boris is a manipulative man who plays the buffoon and he knows exactly what he’s doing BUT he will accept when he’s f*cked up , he will try and squirm out of it , but he does also admit it .
dont hide your political views , just accept others will disagree and don’t lower your self to the level of so many these days who go straight to insults as a retort to a difference of opinion instead of debate .
Great point and great photo. One picture and we all say he is in bed with them however no context. Maybe Corbyn did support the IRA maybe he didn't quite honestly he can make his own views about what he does. Its like your missus seeing a photo of you standing next to another women, does it mean you are sleeping with her?
It probably was a red Herring to discredit him, thing is it worked for a lot of people. When Chamberlain met Hitler and shock his hand did that make him a nazi?
No sorry mate totally wrong there , Corbyn did support the IRA and even taking out the press embellishments it’s still very well documented . The big difference between the likes of the Kennedy’s or Trump supporting them and corbyn supporting them is the IRA wasn’t committing terrorist acts against America , They where against the uk and Corbyn was a member of parliament , THATS the big difference there .
As to Chamberlin and Hitler , again big difference Hitler was a first world national leader not some tinpot terrorist from some shithole 3rd world desert bowl or a terrorist who’s actively attacking the nation your supposed to be politically representing ?
No sorry mate totally wrong there , Corbyn did support the IRA and even taking out the press embellishments it’s still very well documented . The big difference between the likes of the Kennedy’s or Trump supporting them and corbyn supporting them is the IRA wasn’t committing terrorist acts against America , They where against the uk and Corbyn was a member of parliament , THATS the big difference there .
As to Chamberlin and Hitler , again big difference Hitler was a first world national leader not some tinpot terrorist from some shithole 3rd world desert bowl or a terrorist who’s actively attacking the nation your supposed to be politically representing ?
So Again I think you make great points and I’m not that knowledgeable about that period of British history to my discredit. The point I’m trying to make is you can’t judge a person by one picture their actions speak louder. I personally believe Corbyn was a informer to the Stasi and betrayed his country but there is no concrete evidence for that. Apologies for the massive tangent
