Speedbird_666
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I would be interested to hear how a Labour Government would have done any better... ?
Buying From Gunfire.Pl in the New Year? Might Want to See This
- Thread starter Cannonfodder
- Start date
I would be interested to hear how a Labour Government would have done any better... ?
D
DrAlexanderTobacco
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Speedbird_666
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Not holding the ref
Cheers!
Interesting. So you are implying Democracy is a bad thing because you didn't get the outcome you wanted?
I don't remember the late '90s/early '00's as halcyon times. Two costly wars, huge public spending, financial collapse and a cute note left in Whitehall - 'there's no money left'.
But hey, that's all OK! Labour wouldn't have given us a referendum.
I won't comment further on this, consider the above rhetorical - this thread should remain as useful information for post-Brexit buying and not politics, but previous comments whinging about the outcome of two Democratic voting processes deserve a little push-back.
TTFN... ?
Sitting Duck
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- May 11, 2014
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Not holding the ref
Cheers!
The issue that Labour pledged/promised a referendum on the European Constituion
which later became the Lisbon Treaty - basically the Constitution in a new cover
pg 84 of Labour's 2005 manifesto clearly stated they would put it to the people
(remember Labour's BS that their manifesto is a contract with the people)
without going into Ireland holding a referendum on Nice & Lisbon
then asking the people to vote again when they first rejected both of them
Blair KNEW what was coming and stepped down in July 2007
where the unchallenged Brown was appointed (without any challengers) as PM
who later that year signed the Lisbon 4 hours after most leaders & media had left
and then flat out refused a referendum that was promised in their own manifesto
Most of Labour MP's voted to refuse holding a referendum
LibDem's stuck their heads in the sand - though 13 voted in favour of holding one
(see Nick Clegg's referendum on Europe leaflet)
Even the 6 x SNP MP's backed a referendum (how times change)
Conservatives didn't have the votes/support
(even if all the LibDem's sided with them instead of abstaining)
So Labour ratified the Treaty of Lisbon without holding a referendum as in their 2005 manifesto/contract with the people
Politicians - they're all lying hypercritical cnuts at the end of the day
NB - this is not to derail this thread as such
(what has happened has happened)
more to provide a little history on some the crap that lead us to where we are now
I don't wish to start up or continue Brexit stuff about a referendum blah x3
but just some of what took place that perhaps lead to the referendum being held
peace
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Fair point and I’m no fan of labour (nor conservatism)
Democracy - yes, and the result was to invoke article 50 and leave.
I didn’t get the result that I wanted, the majority did
The real problem behind the referendum question wasn’t that it was an offer of democracy but it was a gamble by Cameron, and when it backfired he promptly quit
A problem with the outcome that the majority voted for is that nobody knew what Brexit they were getting. Individually voters knew what Brexit they were voting for or against, collectively all they voted for was to invoke article 50.
The politicians have produced the type of Brexit that has occurred
Asomodai
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To be fair we haven't had an actual left wing or (it can be argued) centrist government since 1979, I think it's safe to say that the economic and foreign policy issues we have had in the past 10 years couldn't be blamed on the left. Not that I want to spin anything positive on New Labour, but the economic issues and "The note" came after the worldwide stock market crash that we had very little to do with in the first place. If the Conservatives were in charge at the time, the exact same thing would have happened as New Labour were more Tory lite then actual Labour in terms of economic policy. I imagine our current government will blame our economic woes on Covid in the same manner.
In the past 30 years we've only had business comes first; faux Neo Liberalist economically centre right or right wing governments. As a reluctant Remainer (As in I think the EU is corrupt, but I voted remain because as a country we have consistently voted in even more corrupt governments for the past 30 years and are likely to continue to), I think its disingenuous to hypothesise as to what another party would have done in any given situation.
Sadly political discourse has descended into a supporting football team mentality. Shouting down from both sides on subjects that you might even agree with the opposition on, just because it is coming from "them". Which is of course what the ruling "elite" want us to do, let the voters blame and fight each other on any and all issues. Anyone trying to change that status quo will get completely rinsed by the papers (and in recent times yes I do mean JC)
Brexit will play out in the next few months or years, conclude where the land lies and then see if it was really the golden goose that was promised, if not and there is a political will, we could always re-join.
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Lozart
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You know that's a contradiction in terms, right? You can't be a fascist if you're left-wing.
Adolf Hamster
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SBoardley
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Lozart. You know the nazi party started off as socialists right? Like our socialist party that demands you vote for labour right? Because they are backed by labour unions right? And you know that is fringe left that DEMAND we give minority fringe factions more rights than the average joe who just wants to go to work pay their mortgage and have some fun right? You know that Jeremy Corbyn is anti semite and has supported multiple terrorist organisations right?
Asomodai
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D
DrAlexanderTobacco
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Speedbird_666
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My bad guys. I dragged the politics into the thread. Apologies.
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