1967PF44

It moved a long time ago from a specific case discussion to a more general discussion- however - in my specific case I do some work for organisation that have clients particularly sensitive to firearms - my involvement in airsoft would not align with their moral standing and if revealed to them it would almost certainly cost me financially quite a bit- that said in reality the source of any leak of information to them is highly unlikely to be a UKARA data breach lol. its been an interesting discussion - quite eye opening - the level of ignorance and offensive aggression in this forum

I think your missing what I’m actually saying - and you are right in almost all of what you’ve say - when you sign up you are agreeing to share the information held (crucially your player status) with the subscribing retailers - what your not agreeing to is sharing that player status with the general public - because that status in law is considered to be “sensitive data” to some individuals it may be very sensitive and it being revealed to a non entitled member of the public maybe harmful . As I have said from the outset I provided my details to the seller- knowing that he was likely to obtain the information- potentially unlawfully, but I didn’t care as I wanted to buy his offerings - when he didn’t then use the information supplied - it sparked a curiosity? And I like a discussion to asked the questions - the problem is that some muppets on the internet get involved in things they have no expertise and when someone who has experience/expertise and genuine knowledge of a topic he is written off as a liar lol

They “share” your status “active” “inactive” “void” or no trace .. and it’s that status that is the “sensitive data” in law

So you have recognised that the general public don’t have access to the register, but retailers are apparently sharing information from the register with the public, and that’s my point about GDPR - they are not allowed to do that. My name and post code was sufficient for a UK retailer to verify my status a couple of years ago, don’t know if that’s changed, but that retailer added my UKARA no to the shipping package - so they were able to get that from the register.

It’s been an interesting discussion, with at least a few making good well thought out or researched arguments. Making them without insults adds to the value of the discussion and allows others to learn from the wealth of knowledge and experience in the group. The list of specifics is a list of examples (not an exclusive list) hence the use of “such as” and I can assure you it includes things like club membership., and would include site membership. I say this for the sole purpose of the strict legal position and not for the purposes of the OPs original post (the thread has moved on) I say this on the basis of experience where membership of a rifle club was revealed to an employer of a friend of mine who was thereafter turned down for promotion. The employer had a very public anti firearms/anti hunting position and actually told him his possession of air rifles and shotguns was incompatible with the promoted post he was applying for. Several employers I am aware of have stated a very clear preference that employees don’t have Airsoft images on their social media presence. So being on the UKARA register is sensitive to some - and that’s all that is required to hit that definition. so it follows that any Tom dick an harry cannot be allowed access to that information- in the case in question, I actually would not have minded the seller verifying my player status, and that’s why I immediately on request provided him everything he needed name, address, Ukaar No, an image of my tags containing the same info, the name of my regular site, I mentioned I Marshall at that site, and a quick call to them will verify everything - surely it was better for him to call someone that knows me rather than some random retailer who has no idea who I am and who would ultimately be (in my and many others opinion) breaking the law, even if done in good faith and with good intentions. it would been a moot point either way if the seller having demanded all of this information had simply used it, verified my status and sold me the pistol, he would have immediately had further confirmation of my ID and address from my verified PayPal account. To go back to the lawful purpose - because it’s deemed sensitive data, it needs specific consent to process it, I doubt any airsofter has given “specific” consent to UKARA as the data controller, to share their data with members of the public claiming to want to sell someone an Airsoft gun. **EDIT*** adirional info actually regardless of whether we agree that membership status amounts to “sensitive information” the UKARA.ORG GDPR PRIVACY POLICY confirms that the data is only held for the use of retailers, Border Force, Hampshire Police. Third party access is restricted to matters where data protection principals are full filled (I assume “for filled” is a typo) - so that would be for the prevention or investigation of criminal acts etc….and only once a suitable and certified exemption declaration is supplied section 11 makes it clear that data is not accessible to third parties - I think that clears it up. sadly doesn’t help me buy the beautiful RIF the OP was selling ?

I can’t link the GDPR page for some reason, but A direct quote, “personal Data” means any information relating to an identified or identifiable individual” the definition of “Senstive data” includes membership of trade unions and other organisations such as clubs, protest groups, etc - basically anything that reveals a sensitive aspect of your life. So our membership and activity status on the UKARA database can only be shared with explicit consent for specified purpose under Article 9 GDPR, Paragraph 2a.. So it follows that like all airsofters who are on the UKARA database we have given specific consent in signing up, to allow “ retailer “ who subscribe to the scheme access to the information to allow them to satisfy themselves that they can lawfully sell a RIF, and for no other purpose. (Words to that effect are certainly on the form I signed many many years ago when I joined. now in reality it actually doesn’t matter to me, I’m not sensitive about my UKARA membership, and when I supplied the information -on request- to the seller, it hadn’t occurred to me that unless he is a retailer he really has no way of checking me out. So I offered him a whol list of other ways to verify my good standing, including one that would have verified my UKARA status, but for some reason he chose not to do that, ……..and I am the strange one being called all sorts of unfortunate names.

You are missing the the facts, because the OP has not really told the story accurately I supplied my UKARA in the first message after he asked for it, however what I said was - this is my number ********* I think! , and said something like, I’ve never used it for years as I don’t buy from retailers…. He may have assumed by that comment that it’s expired, which of course if he actually checked would know it wasn’t. What I meant was I wasn’t certain of the number as I never have had cause to use it. Although as discussions went on, I’m not sure he even tried to check. Within the next message or 2 from me I asked for an update? And offered additional information to help him verify my player status, including a very clear picture of my membership tags, which contain my full name, post code and No., details of my profile on another platform so that he could verify my identity, which would have been confirmed further by the PayPal payment, details of the site where I play and Marshall, I pointed him to my profile and feedback on here to verify I was a long standing member of good reputation……. To which he basically said photos and profile information doesn’t prove anything as I could be anyone….. I didn’t point out that there are quite a few fake entries on the UKARA Database. Lol In short I didn’t think I had made it hard, I gave him everything he asked for.

Don’t expect anyone to take my word for it, do your own research, the law is clear and readily available online Plenty in the world like that, but I’m easy to find online and my qualifications are genuine, lol The whole situation discussed here is incredibly out of context - I agree, in fact I have already directly apologised for any misunderstanding that was generated by any reply I made in the pms discussing the sale - the simple facts are I just wanted to buy the guys gun, in the same way that I have brought many over the last 10/12 years without drama. Lol. The time delay between reading messages and responding didn’t help, and messages not being sent right away due to piss poor Scottish internet where I was seems to have added to the confusion. Add that to a genuine question being taken the wrong way (typical of the Internet forums) and sparking a overly sensitive reaction. Before you know it a highly rated seller/buyer is being called an “untrustworthy cunt” by some troll that hasn’t taken time to hear the whole story (again common on the forums it seems)

Actually paralegals work for lots of organisations and the mention of that was after all the Ukara info had been supplied and I was trying to help explain why I was so familiar with the law, not trying to gain any favours or special treatment (it’s all in the context- often lost on the interweb- particularly in forums and groups like It seems) I actually don’t care if you believe me, but a quick call to the very helpful ICO would verify my claim if you are that interested. I don’t actually think I can link the written information however in general terms and it’s easy to find on the ICO website - membership status of any club, organisation, professional body or Union is personally sensitive information.

No…but Im not sure what link you would be looking for ?? you had me curious as well- I revisited my UKARA topic post….it’s full of “questions” lol - all of which were answered unless you were referring to a different post

For clarity - I’ve never asked for special treatment, never claimed to work for a law firm

You clearly understand the GDPR stuff - the mot/insurance stuff is specifically exempt - and actually you can’t access keepers details etc. the “ lawful purpose” test however I don’t think any of us quite understand properly - a private seller has no lawful purpose in accessing a retailers database - the purpose of the database is to Allow subscribing “retailers” to verify player status to defend the retailer against prosecution for a section 36 ?? Offence. The “personal information” that is protected by law is not my name, postcode or Ukara No, but it is my status - active, inactive or void (I think is the third term) the information commissioner has previously confirmed in a case that this is “personal information” and went beyond that by saying it’s also personally sensitive. I know a few players that conceal their enjoyment and participation of airsoft from their particularly sensitive employers and in one case family - imagine if my employer (sensitive to firearms issues) added a search of the UKARA database to their pre promotion due diligence checks ?? in any case it’s all a bit of nonsense - I provided the guy with my Ukara No and a whole load of additional information to make it easy for him to verify my player status. - why he has behaved the way he has is beyond me - I have nothing to hide, I have great feedback on this site both as a buyer and seller - and yet the trolls are out calling me a cock, prick, habitual liar, untrustworthy cunt, lol on the basis of a strange sellers behaviour ?? Isn’t the internet brilliant And that’s where the inaccuracy lies- the UKARA, name and postcode were provided along with a plethora of other information allowing seller to verify my player status in the second, maybe 3rd message- not 12th and the GDPR comments were only made when having provided all this information still no sale was happening and I became suspicious of the sellers motivation to gather my details. Surely the safe way if you are risk averse - is to Agree a deal, accept payment- PayPal verifies name and address (first safe way of checking it confirms identity and that the buyer is over 18) armed with the already provided UKara - do your due dilligence, if that’s the defence type you want to accept (again no criticism of the well meaning intentions) if not happy refund the payment - explain why and remain polite and reasonable ! one phone call made by the seller after 3rd message - verified my Ukara with my site - if my PayPal payment details didn’t match, then he could have refunded and said sorry something not right no sale ?, it’s not rocket science I don’t think, I’ve been doing it that way for 12 years

It’s was me- I like the judgement based on one slightly inaccurate side of the story - lol serial liar and under 18 lol, part of that I can only Wish was true - Former cop - long retired !!

So your claims are almost accurate - and I think this has got out of hand - because of a misunderstanding- or misrepresentation of what was actually said - message 1 was I’ll buy that if it’s still available, - you respond - what’s your Ukara ? Very fair and indeed well intentioned- I support anyone insuring that airsoft guns only get sold to those with a genuine legal use for them message two I think my Ukara is ****** I have used it for years I don’t buy from retailers - subsequent message contains a clear image of my name the Ukara number and post code on the tags issued by my regular site where I Marshall, I provided you their details to make it easy to verify my player status - as I honestly believe that you have no right to check my player status on the Ukara database if you are not a retailer who subscribes to the informs and is selling me a RIf - I asked if you were a. Retailer (you didn’t answer! in aa further separate message I also provided my full name post code and Ukara with an additional zero on front as it’s reproduced with one zero on my emails and 2 on my tags - not sure what one is correct - however a search in the database on either finds it. as far as the law is concerned - I simply tried to explain that UKara is Not the only available defence and that verifying my player status through my site would be less cumbersome and easier for you. it appears the matter is further complicated by the fact you have not received the message with my name and postcode - which is unfortunate as all of this nonsense could have been avoided - I just wanted you pay you your asking price for a gun I wanted to add to my collection . Lol anyway, the trolls have had there fun as a result of the genuine questions asked - I bear you no hard feelings - and wish you luck with future sales and purchases PS The GDPR expert I have access to has confirmed that the sharing of my Ukara status with a member of the public who does not subscribe to the information would meet the “lawful purpose” test and friendly retailers who check People out for their mates are probably breaking the law. @ak2m4 For the benefit of the doubt the information was provided at the first request along with further supporting information to help the seller easily verify my player status. 2nd my UKARA status is in fact “personal information” in terms of GDPR and is only accessible to those retailers that I have consented to using for the purposes of selling me a RIF. None of us have consented to that being made available to the general public many Airsofters I know have to conceal their interests in the hobby from sensitive employers Hmm, labelling me a prick on one half of the story !! As I explained you have the same issue on any anonymous site ! nobody on here uses their real name (well very few do) mine at least my initials - I offered several sources of information to help you verify my player status- my linkd in profile, my name post code Ukara, my regular site, my regular retailer, my profile feedback here is all positive - I genuinely don’t know what else I could have done - lol

Good luck with your chosen path, your eminence ! An interesting combination- however I am a former police officer of 20 years experience- and a qualified para legal - more interesting is that I provided the seller with an easy way to verify my claims in a single call to the largest airsoft retailer in the Uk, who would have also instantly verified my defence, player status and UKARA. My feedback alone on this site shows I’m not a chancer but as an occasional reseller I often haggle hard to secure a bargain! I never hide that I am a reseller and a broker of deals for people who cannot be bothered dealing with some of the “cunts” (I like that word too) on social media and sales sites. You on the another hand I doubt very much will make next pope….. It went quite well - it answered the questions I didn’t know the answered too

If you talking about the Denny case from several years ago, that was a shambles, caused not by the Fiscal actually, but not helped by their approach. If we ever meet in person, assuming you are Scottish Skirmisher there is a chance of that at a skirmish, then speak to me and I’ll tell you the real story behind that ? Yes I understand that. But private sellers can’t search the database? Or can they

Your right, although the database contains more information than that that someone must have access too. in any case my UKARA status, (active/dormant) is deemed to be personally sensitive information under GDPR- which I have agreed by signing up to share with any “retailer” who is part of the scheme and whom I want to by an RIF from - and no other party especially not private sellers

So I will never criticise anyone selling an Airsoft gun, be it a Realistic Imitation or just an imitation, for taking care to ensure that the sale is only made to someone who intends to use it for one of the prescribed purposes that makes the sale lawful. However in this world of grave concerns about your personal data, how do we feel about a retailer (with access to that database) providing information such as confirmation of current validity of UKARA to a private seller/one of their mates/site owner ? my personal view is that there is no doubt that would be an offence and a clear breach of the GDPR legislation. But do I care? Actually I think I do, as that database has my name, address, date of birth and personally sensitive information that I don’t want just anyone to be aware of. If they are accessing the database to share the info with any Tom, Dick and Harriet, then what else are they doing with my data. Am I being over sensitive? Or is this the world we live in, where we have to be much more careful. Ater all there are many many’s to verify the legality of a sale before it’s made, open source research is easy, and offers the same protection. I have spoke to Uk prosecutors who have confirmed that simply asking the question “Are you over 18 and are you going to use this Airsoft gun only in a Skirmish, or for other associated and approved purposes” is enough to satisfy the requirements of the statutory defence. Being registered on UKARA only confirms that you were once a player, and does not reveal your intentions for the use of a particular RIF/IF Thoughts ?

I have clearly missed something, or have become dim in my older years.... ?.....and its my advert ?? AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH..............lol, I should proof read before posting....lol

The difference from a sellers point of view is ensuring you keep evidence of condition and of any agreements made in relation refunds or problems arising - I don’t know anyone that would be happy accept a return after a buyer had worked on the item - be it airsoft or any other thing Dear BMW, there was a funny noise coming from the engine of my car so I let our Dave who really likes cars and once changed his own oil take the cylinder head off- he couldn’t really see what was wrong and lost some bits and found a broken thing, errrm can I have my money back ? PS you will need to send a tow truck and a wheely bin to collect the bits !! …..it’s that sort of scenario…

Thanks, but I don’t think there is anything to celebrate, things like this happening just cause bad feeling Not everyone agrees I was right I’m sure, and the buyer certainly won’t buy from me again, and is likely to be put off buying second hand in the future because of his negative experience - he is also left out of pocket because of his failure to properly research his purchase. But hey that’s second hand airsoft, I’ve bought new that’s broke first outing and got nowhere with a retail warranty claim. Thanks to everyone for their support however. Old Boy Out!

Well the decision of the PayPal jury is in !! “ Based on all the information supplied we do not accept that the item sold was significantly different from the description provided in the initial advert or in the pre sales conversation- any held funds in relation to this matter will now be released”

Indeed- and was well advised in the both the advert and the pre sales chat that this was the case and that it must go to someone with HPA and tech experience

Sorry- it was an hpa converted M870- that had a slight leak from the macro line- that’s not really an issue though- that was an easy fix - the real issue for the buyer is this internal part- and it’s not that the part is a drama it’s just hard to get

Buyer has raised a PayPal case, so I have to let that run its course now anyway. PayPal is very buyer orientated, so I’ll wait until that sorts itself out.