Insane ROF M4

[Alex34]

@Mos, I know exactly what you were getting at and my rebutle is the same... Do you think a 35rps aeg hurts that much more than any other aeg?. I'm not trying to be rude and apologies for my earlier "abused" comment... didn't know you were only a lad.

My point is as long as people play legitimately and by the rules, rof does not have a bearing on safety. If they don't play by the rules high rof only increases risks slightly but not enough that sites should put limits on rof. High FPS and overkill are by far the worst out of the bunch.

 

[Sacarathe]

Okay, so me and my friend have decided we want to build an m4 with insane ROF, we decided we wanted a long barrel and we are also going to be buying 5000 round mags. Trouble is, we need help with the internals since we have no idea what we are doing with it. We just want insane ROF at around 350 fps. Things we need help with is the motor and gears and basically anything internal.

Next time, make a thread: "how can I improve my trigger response" Include: "I read somewhere that increasing my automatic fire rate to around 30 RPS +/- 5 is best, how can I do this?". - to avoid the morality police. In the end, this can be put to bed with "guns don't kill people".

 

[Alex34]

where I play people are encouraged to only fire short controlled bursts in full auto, max 2 seconds (although some seem to not know how to count), if that was from a 35rps gun that would be 70 BBs, if they were a good shot, that would be 70 BBs on target..... would you happily take that to the face? What if one of the first 10 or so BBs dislodged the victims eyepro? that then allows 60 BBs to hit someone in the face with no eyepro, you see where I'm coming from now??? HIGH ROF GUNS ARE DANGEROUS.

Dude really?

If a plastic bb can dislodge your eyepro (even 10 plastic bbs), you know what my reply is already right?

Wear proper gear.

 

[Sitting Duck]

The whole pain factor varies greatly....

Depends where you get shot for a start

Back, face, fingers even the crown jewels

Even then it can vary so much also

You can drop a solid glass ashtray on ya nutz and it barely hurts, then drop a matchbox or something so light and wriggle in agony.

Police have been lifted airbourne almost by thugs yet have given chase and restrained the person. Minutes later collapsing in agony

Kidneys are a much more accurate reliable area to strike as it will drop almost anybody if done correctly...

What I'm saying is it varies so much from different places and still the same place can be agony or just a slight tap

Just pisses me right off when some peeps say it don't hurt

Most of the time it don't, but now n then the odd single shot stings like F*CK !!!!

On top of that, a high rof is OK if used in moderation

Eg not empty a mag in seconds but single shots or small 3-5 round burst when suppressing so teams can move up....

It is all about how people conduct themselves

You could have a stock 12rps gun and be a bigger w@nker than a guy with a 30rps gun that just wants controlled quick response with a short burst now n then

Then the 12rps hire noob fails to take hits keeps shooting you on auto at close quartets yet will tell his m8's where your team is as he walks to respawn dead zone

Not having a go at new comers just used the above to demonstrate a difference in players attitudes

Chill, go easy, love your gun's rof/rps/make/colour whatever you want - just remember if you was really that f*cking good you could still kick ar$e with a crappy JBBG

But yup sometimes just a single shot can f*cking hurt

Yet a 10rnd in the chubby belly means little discomfort

 

[Esoterick]

I'd have thought it was pretty obvious that a high rate of fire means you can get hit more within a given space of time. Lots of sites i've played at already make players use semi auto only in CQB areas because people can't be trusted to use their brains.

 

[Sitting Duck]

Indeed, even if on full auto in woods

You can give the trigger a quick flick to take out somebody but still have the option of returning a burst of fire if his team mates over there start letting rip in your direction.

All in moderation....

Double tap or 1 or 2 burst is all you need unless you aim is that $hit. In that case improve your aim or hop not rof

Is down to the players themselves to help reduce the bell-end ratio

 

[Mos]

It wasn't the fact that I'm young. I experience pain the same as you. But in my head it will probably hurt more. You know pain is sensed by nerve signals to the brain? Well I suppose I probably experience it differently in my head.

Just like when we were all 5 yrs old and tripped over, and probably cried. You probably won't cry if you tripped over nower days, if you do, well, sorry lol.

 

[PT247]

Dude really?

If a plastic bb can dislodge your eyepro (even 10 plastic bbs), you know what my reply is already right?

Wear proper gear.

yes. have you never heard of folk losing teeth to just one plastic BB? Have you not seen photos of folk bleeding from these plastic BBs? You are either just trolling or ignorant..... or one of those that is the problem trying to justify your ROF.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

Is down to the players themselves to help reduce the bell-end ratio

I think the main point is that most good players dont want or need high rof. Which means most of the people who want or have high rof guns fall into the bellend category.

 

[Sacarathe]

It would be nice if there were some AEGs with a ROF of of 5 to save my poor fingers.

 

[Mos]

choo choo!

Maybe we ban guns that actually fire BB's? no? anyone ?

vury serioos nut messign abuot

 

[BBrotherwood]

A single one that stings like a bitch or hits something unfortunate is fair play, it's not the other guys fault its bad luck. Them lighting you up on the other hand is their fault and completely unnecessary/painful and far more dangerous.

TBF I have only had the one bad experience but that was enough to question how much I want to trust a random stranger to not be a complete nob.

 

[Alex34]

yes. have you never heard of folk losing teeth to just one plastic BB? Have you not seen photos of folk bleeding from these plastic BBs? You are either just trolling or ignorant..... or one of those that is the problem trying to justify your ROF.

What a tool.

There is nothing left for me to say to you. You're a grown man, if you can't realise yet that it's your lack of facial protection and not all those evil high rof skirmishers that is the problem then tough tits. Enjoy being miserable.

 

[PT247]

Actually I never whinge about face shots for that exact reason.... When it isn't through overshooting. You do not need 60+ BBs to do the job of 1, learn to shoot straight dude.... And I hope you never get over shot in a game.

 

[Randymanpipe]

Shot in the crown jewels sitting duck? Ouch! Iv never experienced that pleasure, maybe for once it's a good thing that I'm a grower not a shower!

 

[Sitting Duck]

actually got shot right on the ol' chap at epsom

yes all the jokes - wow he must have a bloody good scope with night vision to shoot something so small

but right on the meat rather than 2 veg - stung a bit for a split sec but luckily my jeans took most of sting

and we both saw the funny side of it......

as for any heated discussions starting - jeeeez

look I like a fast gun and I run with high caps mainly

and yes I can shoot a bit trigger happy sometimes but at my local it is just a nooby basic mess about place

I over look most of kids, hirers, non-hit takers, over inflated ego players coz it is just a basic mess about run round the woods place

plus I'm f*cking $hit at it all - often games like closet to flag is just a crazy mofo let rip stopping anybody get near flag

but if I hit somebody I ease up straight away - honest

well unless they refuse to call it, then I also suffer from dementia forgetting what I was supposed to do......

But Mall is gonna be semi - no problem

just as at my site the buildings/village is semi only so we all abide by that

but still could spam a sod if we choose but not my style - well I guess I'm not in the game long enough anyway

I see why a high rof is nice up to point

But if at more serious sites with players not needing to spray n pray so much

you do tend to adjust your playstyle a little according to each situation

The original post was about an insane rof - what exactly people call insane can vary

but originally it was about trying to inform the OP about learning to crawl-walk before they attempt to run/sprint

I'll still stand by the player themselves and way they conduct themselves is what really matters

I am not too bothered if some mofo has a PolarStar cranked up on rof - not fps btw

but yeah he & others can shoot like f*ck if they wish - however if you start to shoot my ar$e

can you please ease up a little when you have hit me once or twice - trust me I will be calling it

(or calling that player something if he keeps overkilling me & the others)

The danger comes when inexperienced or sadistic players think its "fun" to shoot the $hit out of enemy

This leads to rows that need not be there and things getting out of hand ruin it for loads of us wanting a bit of fun

20 to 30 is the max I think most UK sites would need

if you must have 40+ for a normal aeg - yes even I think they must be overcompensating for something

even with pre-cocking, instance response, 14.8v - ffs its a toy gun not a fanny magnet on wheels

Mind you I suppose we can meet up for a monthly cruise and get our toy guns featured in Hot Gun Magazine with some ol' tarts posing with them...

Ergh - nah - they are just toy guns, even I don't take them that seriously - jeeeez

 

[Mos]

But, with high ROF, doesn't your muzzle velocity drop in number? Or is that my misconception, as it makes sense in my head but has no relevance in airsoft at all?

 

[Happy]

I'm curious, has any one actually answered the posters original question?

Anyway, high ROF guns don't bother me - you can be a dick with a low ROF gun just as much as a high ROF gun.

 

[Alex34]

I'm curious, has any one actually answered the posters original question?

Anyway, high ROF guns don't bother me - you can be a dick with a low ROF gun just as much as a high ROF gun.

Thanks for pointing this out. Some people love to try and tell others what is right and wrong and what is fact based off of their own misconceptions. I say do what makes you happy, as long as it's legal and you are not f@$king anyone over.

If the site you play at tolerates players being dicks and cheating then maybe you need to find another site.

 

[Sitting Duck]

I'm curious, has any one actually answered the posters original question?

Anyway, high ROF guns don't bother me - you can be a dick with a low ROF gun just as much as a high ROF gun.

I did sort of - linked him to Legacy's guide which is very good bit of info

look I like to type but sod typing that much crap everytime somebody asks......

However there a few differences between that guide for USA & us Limey's

We have lower fps so we can't quite use m120 springs in normal aeg's unless we are Shortstroking to lower fps

So when Legacy says use this n that - it will often be a tad hot for some examples

The problem with increased rof is double cycling and PE - on lower spring setups this takes place earlier at lower rps

eg: 25rps = over running - double cycle & 30rps PE on a 340fps UK gun

This won't happen on a US gun with a stock m110 to m120 spring as they are not hot for many of their sites

So though it is a very very very good guide it is not to be taken completely 101% gospel for us over here

HOWEVER - it does go into depth about various stages of increasing rof and work involved especially at higher speeds

often depending how fast you really want to go very little needs to change - so you don't have to replace it all with Lonex etc.....

Service ya gun, AoE, increase seals maybe fit spring guide if trying to lighten piston for quicker return blah blah blah.....

Then if getting into 20's leave the stock 18:1 gears in there and heck you could leave a good stock ferrite motor there as well

run on 11.1v is one way but seriously advise fitting fet if going down that amount of juice.....

The extra juice will boost aprox 50% over a 7.4v lipo from extra cell eg: 13rps to 20rps

or fit a faster powerful motor - it really depends on budget and how far/fast you wanna go

However I could go into loads and loads of MY RECOMMENDATIONS - and they may be different to others a little

But I can honestly say to anybody thinking of going nutz......

IT IS NOT THAT EASY - the tolerances and attention to detail on every single poxy little bastid part inside is critical

I learnt - still learning that it isn't a simple case of duplo/meccano of just dropping a new go faster part and it will just work

All them bits n bobs are manufactured with $hit tolerances that fit into $hit gearbox tolerances and furthermore....

EVERY SINGLE BOX IS DIFFERENT TO EACH OTHER - even 2 G&G builds may be shimmed differently if done properly

Each motor can have its pinion at slightly different heights - won't completely affect the shimming a great massive deal but will affect motor height

shimming itself can only be as good as the time and level of detail taken when shimming and even a good guess of motor height is no match for a dial guage measurement - even a rough measurement is going to be better than many people's guess (except Mr Spock teching a box)

The guide needs to be read though to fully understand the detail required and even on a modest 20+ build the same detail applies

Well if you really want it to last as long as possible - coz one part in particular WILL fail - it WILL

Often - very very often the reliability is down to mainly 2 things:

Shimming - I know this gets said every time but so true as bad shimming increases wear on box/gears and especially motor

&

Just how strong your weakest part is - coz it will fail eventually

Normally - pistons strip/snap, bearings start failing and when they do the play can destroy gears also

So when going to higher 20's eg getting to 30 or more a full metal rack is needed and use bushings

I have tried a few pistons but on 13:1 gears pushing it many pistons start to fail but make sure you did ya homework

as full metal rack + PE or bad bb jam slowing a high speed piston will smash f*ck out of box

but try to get the whole piston as truely light as possible to return asap

no bearing in piston - swiss cheese but it only saves about 1.5gms I found - depends on how heavy the piston is to begin with

Bushings - all or nearly all in box especially under the gears - left side of gearbox an absolute must

tbh bushings - will lose a round or two a second but will greatly prolong/prevent failure in gears in the long run

Oh f*ck it my fingers are killing me - the long story trying to shorten it a bit .....

gun is firing 30rps+ f*ck yeah that's great.....

ooh hold up - should of fitted a delay clip maybe coz it ain't feeding properly

fits delay clip - better but still not perfect.... uhmm ergh new tappet spring or lop coils off....

hmmm a little better but just now n then still splutters....

Another reason could be ya fitted a slightly longer o-ring nozzle

(that just so ever so slightly slghtly impedes the bb feeding into hop)

replace/file nozzle coz you didn't check when building it all.....

yeah getting there but just now n then splutters the odd one out....

Oh crap stock high cap mag is $hit, borrow a m8's mid cap or Lonex mag and works flawlessly

So gets new mags - the tech bill is getting higher n higher......

Funny thing is all this attention to detail for higher rof and yet

gun still shoots with mediocre accuracy on stock barrel & bucking

Ok to compensate for not considering anything outside the box.......

hmmm I wonder if I put a bigger battery in there - famous last words.......

BANG - OH $HIT !!!!!!

famous last words indeed

the story of me taking the pi$$ again and again

Hence the simplest advice it go easy and get to twenties in plenty

a quick question for you all:

What goes: "peck peck peck - BANG !!!!!!"

NOPE - not a chicken in a minefield you might think

but

ME getting gun chrono'd and starting my first game of the day with one of my super duper rapid duck builds

I've broke LOADS and learnt very little despite all the bollox I type