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CamboL

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Seen there hasn't been a recent thread (in last 10 years) asking for recommendations and advice

As the proud owner of a new PVS14 - looking to get some NOD time in to practice away from the milsims it was bought for

Based in the East of England - what sites do you know offer night games?
Aware Combat Airsoft, any other recommendations?

Saw Tuddenham occasionally do them, but then saw that they're strictly "No NODs" which feels weird

Heeeelp!
 
CamboL said:
Saw Tuddenham occasionally do them, but then saw that they're strictly "No NODs" which feels weird
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Our local site has a no nods rule for night games too - I believe the thinking is that allowing NODs makes it a pay to win type scenario, and no fun for the paying customers who don't have the cash to splash on a good set of NV or thermal. They haven’t always had the rule, but it was instigated over the past year following experience.
 
So lots of sites don’t like those with a photonic advantage

Any that do? 👀 (Asking for a friend - that friend being me) :ROFLMAO:
 
not sure where i land on a no-nod night game.

you can pay to win a regular skirmish if you shell out for .48's and a gat that'll send them where you want to. for outdoor work it's a very clear advantage. Dont see how fancy nods/thermals are any different.

In a night game one expects the nod users having to deal witht the torch users, i know the more modern nods can handle lights but the mid/lower range can be damaged by them so i wonder if that's why sites are scared.

Dont want someone rocking up with soviet gen 1 nods then billing the site when someone fries the tube by shining a torch at it.
 
Adolf Hamster said:
not sure where i land on a no-nod night game.

you can pay to win a regular skirmish if you shell out for .48's and a gat that'll send them where you want to. for outdoor work it's a very clear advantage. Dont see how fancy nods/thermals are any different.

In a night game one expects the nod users having to deal witht the torch users, i know the more modern nods can handle lights but the mid/lower range can be damaged by them so i wonder if that's why sites are scared.

Dont want someone rocking up with soviet gen 1 nods then billing the site when someone fries the tube by shining a torch at it.
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I think you’ve hit the nail on the head

Having spent the past 4 nights going out on night hikes to get used to being under NODs - they’re definitely not the cheat code people think

Don’t get me wrong - it’s a big assistance for navigating and acquisition. But the narrow FOV, photonic barriers and lack of depth perception certainly make some elements more challenging than if working under torchlight

Similarly, have played a number of night games against NOD users before I bought mine. Never felt outgunned - just had to play differently (use white light - flank and take advantage of narrow FOV etc)

I wouldn’t expect a relatively new player with their second hand delta armoury running .24’s out of a high cap to ask a site to ban someone with a fully tricked out wolverine during a daylight game

I wonder if it’s the perception of nods being a superpower which has skewed the opinion at some sites
 
I think night vision / thermals are more pay to win than paying more for airsoft guns or ammo. If you gave me £2000 and £200 to put together two separate airsoft guns, the £2000 will undoubtedly be nicer, but the £200 will be more than competitive. Good quality NVGs or even mediocre thermals give a significant leg up over the guy using a white light and showing everyone where he is every time he wants to see anything. Yes, a skilled player with no NVGs will probably get the better of a poor player with NVGs, but a skilled player with NVGs will do far more damage at night than a skilled player with a good gun during the day, which is much easier to overcome with cheaper gear.

Someone rocks up with a set of quad nods, some sort of amazing analogue NVGs that would require a mortgage to afford then you're generally screwed. Even trying to blind them with white light is difficult with all their fancy sensors and automatic adjustments, but most people will use either cheaper analogue or even digital NVGs that you can totally blind and potentially even damage with a bright white light; I don't even think I'd feel that bad if it happened to someone, in the same way that if someone brings an unprotected red dot that gets shot out, it was their choice to bring it to a game of BB wars where there is a not-insignificant chance of damage and so the fault lies with them. Sure, if someone is purposefully going point blank and shining a bright light directly into the tubes then that's called being a cunt, but if someone happens to be shining white light that hits the NVG player and damages the tubes, then that's just a hazard that you have to be aware of as an NVG user, much in the same way that you should always run a protective cap on a red dot sight to mitigate the possibility of it being shot out.

However, thermal is definitely a cheat code. There are ways to mitigate it, but hiding from even a cheap thermal optic is incredibly difficult. I've been tempted to pick up a cheap thermal monocular myself for getting into milsims and using it as a spotting device, then relying on short bursts of white light for shooting.

I'm generally on the side of having no NVG games, even as someone who is getting more into milsims and getting a thermal monocular for myself. I am also a Driver Wood player and I actually chatted with one of the marshalls about it and the whole reason they don't do NVG games is because they just didn't pull in the numbers. What they observed is that the people who rocked up with NVGs and thermals generally dominated (obviously a small number of no NVG players still did fine, but the majority struggled) and it put people off, so their attendance absolutely plummeted over time as people without NVGs simply stopped showing up, and so as a business it made no sense to keep running them.

If you want to play a night game with NVGs, I'd recommend milsims. You'll be among many likeminded individuals there, and they do pull in the numbers.
 
NV/Thermal user here:

I wouldn't say pay to win, although they certainly give you an advantage if you can use them.

In Airsoft there are ways to counter thermals (silly as it sounds, sitting next to a rock that's been under the sun all day) and generally foliage will counter most of the cheap ones.

Price tag wise, yes they're expensive, but so are the 10/15/20+ replicas most of you people have at home. A decent thermal can be bought for sub 1k though, that's basically a gbbr + a handful of mags.
Nods otoh are silly expensive for what they offer and if anyone find themselves trying to choose between the two, I'd go thermal all day long because it's much more versatile.
 
as far as i can tell looking at the FB page it's not so much that tuddenham's banned NVG's but rather doing no-nvg night games in spring/summer where tbh i doubt nods would be that useful with play ending at 22.00. i haven't been in a few years (moved) but back in 2022/23 it was basically nvg party time once a month. as i understand they stopped doing it when one of the main marshalls stepped back a bit. splatoon used to do night games too around that time too but seems to have petered out. anyway your best option is to check fb pages often as i've found that sites will sometimes, semi-randomly announce a night game, or travel.

good times at gunman camp bravo halloween game 2024:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcqB215fZww
 
Impulse said:
I think night vision / thermals are more pay to win than paying more for airsoft guns or ammo. If you gave me £2000 and £200 to put together two separate airsoft guns, the £2000 will undoubtedly be nicer, but the £200 will be more than competitive. Good quality NVGs or even mediocre thermals give a significant leg up over the guy using a white light and showing everyone where he is every time he wants to see anything. Yes, a skilled player with no NVGs will probably get the better of a poor player with NVGs, but a skilled player with NVGs will do far more damage at night than a skilled player with a good gun during the day, which is much easier to overcome with cheaper gear.

Someone rocks up with a set of quad nods, some sort of amazing analogue NVGs that would require a mortgage to afford then you're generally screwed. Even trying to blind them with white light is difficult with all their fancy sensors and automatic adjustments, but most people will use either cheaper analogue or even digital NVGs that you can totally blind and potentially even damage with a bright white light; I don't even think I'd feel that bad if it happened to someone, in the same way that if someone brings an unprotected red dot that gets shot out, it was their choice to bring it to a game of BB wars where there is a not-insignificant chance of damage and so the fault lies with them. Sure, if someone is purposefully going point blank and shining a bright light directly into the tubes then that's called being a cunt, but if someone happens to be shining white light that hits the NVG player and damages the tubes, then that's just a hazard that you have to be aware of as an NVG user, much in the same way that you should always run a protective cap on a red dot sight to mitigate the possibility of it being shot out.

However, thermal is definitely a cheat code. There are ways to mitigate it, but hiding from even a cheap thermal optic is incredibly difficult. I've been tempted to pick up a cheap thermal monocular myself for getting into milsims and using it as a spotting device, then relying on short bursts of white light for shooting.

I'm generally on the side of having no NVG games, even as someone who is getting more into milsims and getting a thermal monocular for myself. I am also a Driver Wood player and I actually chatted with one of the marshalls about it and the whole reason they don't do NVG games is because they just didn't pull in the numbers. What they observed is that the people who rocked up with NVGs and thermals generally dominated (obviously a small number of no NVG players still did fine, but the majority struggled) and it put people off, so their attendance absolutely plummeted over time as people without NVGs simply stopped showing up, and so as a business it made no sense to keep running them.

If you want to play a night game with NVGs, I'd recommend milsims. You'll be among many likeminded individuals there, and they do pull in the numbers.
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It’s definitely an interesting take

Totally agree about milsims and that was the reason for investing in my PVS14 for that exact reason

Still not sure about the skirmish site night game piece. When I didn’t have NODs never once thought “That bastard has an unfair advantage and it’s not fair etc” I’ve always been of the “holy crap that’s cool - I want them, but first I need to shoot the guy with them before he sees me!”

My gut feel is people should stop whining and “get good” but then I also think that’s properly toxic and gets dangerously close to certain Airsoft snipers (who shall not be named)

Talking to a pal that also runs NODs we both agree if we were on one team with NODs, thermal, comms etc then yes that’s obviously deeply unfair on the other team if they don’t have this capability. But then we’d also be absolutely ok and supportive of us being split up and put on different teams to balance the game.

Wasn’t expecting this sort of intellectual debate from an advice thread but it’s great thought provoking stuff on a Friday evening when it’s bucketing it down
 
CamboL said:
My gut feel is people should stop whining and “get good” but then I also think that’s properly toxic and gets dangerously close to certain Airsoft snipers (who shall not be named)
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It's not really about "getting good" though.

I’m sure if you took a survey asking whether thermals/NVG (I have never played dark games so can't comment on NVG much) should be allowed or not, the results would almost entirely come down to whether someone actually has one, or can afford to drop £3k on one. The people who have them will vote to allow them, and the people who can’t afford one will probably vote against them.

I was recently asked by a marshal at my regular site whether, as a ghillie sniper, I object to thermal scopes, as we have a regular there with one of those £3k scopes. I said it doesn’t really bother me. I see my ghillie as a massive advantage because it’s specifically matched to the environment I’m playing in, so thermal is a natural counter to that. However, he said that around 95% of the players he’d asked didn’t like the idea of thermals and thought they would ruin the game.

Sure, there are ways to counter a thermal, but let’s be honest, the chances of someone consciously thinking, “Oh, they have thermal, better make sure I’m not giving off heat,” are pretty low. That’s assuming you even know the other team has one in the first place.

I’m not against people using them if they have one. I just think people should understand that having a significant advantage, whether that’s a £3k thermal, a really good ghillie, or a good rifle, can potentially have a pretty big impact on other people’s experience. A few weeks ago I described a game where my team was 100% pinned into the spawn by an LMG shooting from high cover. It was so demoralising that 70% of the team left after that match ended. That was a 2k LMG, heavily upgraded. Should the guy not use it? of course he should; but should they have maybe thought, "oh I'm kinda stopping them from playing; perhaps i should chill a bit and let them try to push". Granted its a game but at the end of the day, everyone is there to have fun.

I know this myself, and I know some people dislike snipers, so I try not to be too menacing about it. If someone manages to get me, I’ll always shout “nice shot” or give them some recognition for it. I think there’s a difference between having an advantage and understanding how that advantage affects the experience of the people you’re playing against.
 
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Punisher3990 said:
It's not really about "getting good" though.

I’m sure if you took a survey asking whether thermals/NVG (I have never played dark games so can't comment on NVG much) should be allowed or not, the results would almost entirely come down to whether someone actually has one, or can afford to drop £3k on one. The people who have them will vote to allow them, and the people who can’t afford one will probably vote against them.

I was recently asked by a marshal at my regular site whether, as a ghillie sniper, I object to thermal scopes, as we have a regular there with one of those £3k scopes. I said it doesn’t really bother me. I see my ghillie as a massive advantage because it’s specifically matched to the environment I’m playing in, so thermal is a natural counter to that. However, he said that around 95% of the players he’d asked didn’t like the idea of thermals and thought they would ruin the game.

Sure, there are ways to counter a thermal, but let’s be honest, the chances of someone consciously thinking, “Oh, they have thermal, better make sure I’m not giving off heat,” are pretty low. That’s assuming you even know the other team has one in the first place.

I’m not against people using them if they have one. I just think people should understand that having a significant advantage, whether that’s a £3k thermal, a really good ghillie, or a good rifle, can potentially have a pretty big impact on other people’s experience. A few weeks ago I described a game where my team was 100% pinned into the spawn by an LMG shooting from high cover. It was so demoralising that 70% of the team left after that match ended. That was a 2k LMG, heavily upgraded. Should the guy not use it? of course he should; but should they have maybe thought, "oh I'm kinda stopping them from playing; perhaps i should chill a bit and let them try to push". Granted its a game but at the end of the day, everyone is there to have fun.

I know this myself, and I know some people dislike snipers, so I try not to be too menacing about it. If someone manages to get me, I’ll always shout “nice shot” or give them some recognition for it. I think there’s a difference between having an advantage and understanding how that advantage affects the experience of the people you’re playing against.
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Totally agree

Also for absolute clarity I know it’s not a “get good” piece

Was more referencing that’s the first thought that could come to mind - but as said, that’s a really toxic way to look at it

Promise that’s not my sentiment at all!

Interesting point RE the LMG and chilling out - think that’s a really good example of how sportsmanship can and should dictate an advantage
 
CamboL said:
Totally agree

Also for absolute clarity I know it’s not a “get good” piece

Was more referencing that’s the first thought that could come to mind - but as said, that’s a really toxic way to look at it

Promise that’s not my sentiment at all!

Interesting point RE the LMG and chilling out - think that’s a really good example of how sportsmanship can and should dictate an advantage
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Oh, I didn’t think that at all. I’m definitely an advocate for the “anything goes” approach in a game. Sure, it would probably suck to go up against thermals more often as a ghillie, but I also understand that ghillies are probably just as disliked by some players as thermals are.

I’d like to think I’m a nice sniper. 😂 Sometimes I’ll deliberately not take a shot if I think there’s a good chance it’ll hit someone in the face, and I try to play more as a counter-sniper than someone who sits around spawn camping or creating kill tunnels. I’d hate to think I’d genuinely ruined someone’s day because I kept taking them out, although I’m certain I’ve probably done that once or twice already. 😂

Sniping is the dark side, and once you peer into that abyss, it’s hard to get back out. I imagine thermals and NVGs are probably much the same; it's hard to resist that edge it gives. 😂
 
Tuddenham used to allow night vision at night games and was building a really active night game community. People were travelling all over for them, it got to the point around 50/50 with NV Vs those without. Shame they stopped but it changed site manager.

Thermal was becoming the next things, several players had thermal and nv set ups.

I've ran nv for a long time at milsims and skirmish night games, against those without night vision it was a huge advantage ( There most games I absolutely destroyed other teams to the point of I started playing in a style that made is harder for me)......but I sacrificed not having new cars or other things etc to have the funds. Others could have done the same but they chose not to. Several times after games people would comment on the cost etc and id point out their expensive car Vs my piece of crap. Some players have super expensive rifs, some don't, so that disparity of investment is ok but NV Vs people without isn't, is always a stance that annoyed me.

Having said that, it's not much fun being the targets and being absolutely dominated, feeling like you don't have a chance does drive people away from attending which can kill the night game market altogether.
 
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