New Pistol for the British Army

[Hubert]

I thought that some of you may find this interesting, as I know some of you are doing modern/current British Army loadouts.

As of 2013, the British Army* will have an official replacement for the Browning Hi-power.

£8.5 million contract with Glock to supply the Army with the Glock 17, combined with an Italian made holster. I know nothing about holsters, but do know that it's plastic, leg/hip mounred and there is a small 'flap' which closes down over the pistol when not in use. There's about 25,000 pistols being bought along with support from Glock. They'll be issued to troops as commanders see fit.

The SIG P226/9s were UORs, rather than an official replacement for the Browning. Most of the SIGs around today really do need replacing - they've been in constant use since 2008 in Afghanistan and have been really worn down. As they were UORs, they didn't come with support from SIG-Sauer (supplies, spares, training, maintenance etc), which is why they are so knackered.

*I've only seen the Army mentioned. I assume that the Navy will be keeping their SIGs.

**Also some units will be keeping their SIGs, as these were bought (with supply and maintenance) specially for those units (RMP come to mind)

 

[TPI]

i thought the army deemed that only tw*t's with the brimmed hat's get pistol's?

Now their gonna look like me except without the Non-Issue Kit (Copy cat so and so's!)

 

[Airsoft-Ed]

That's interesting, I didn't know the Sig was a UOR. Kinda sad to hear that it is, I'm sure they're statistically better than Glocks in every regard except weight and magazine capacity.

I'm going to stick with a Sig though, I prefer them for the ergonomics. Plus, my L85 is slightly back dated because I prefer the look of it as it is. For my loadout to by authentic as of today and for me to have a Glock, I'd have to get an extended upper rail, 20mm conversion rail, get a Spectre DR and also, from what I've read, replace my DD RIS for a Dark Earth version and get a different colour grip-pod.

None of which I can be arsed to do, nor want to do lol.

 

[Nutster]

Custom glock 17 gen 4's was what I read, and supposedly glock were adding a manual safety to them :huh:

And yup dark earth rail and accessories, but they're being added as and when the weapons get serviced. Bit strange since we are leaving afghan next year

 

[TPI]

So what's different to a standard G17 other than this Dum Safety are their any Pic's?

 

[Hubert]

Re-Safety -

I've been told a lot about this, and at the moment really don't know.

I know that when the trials for the replacement started a few years ago (somepoint from 2000-2005), Glock was asked to put a push-bar safety in - think the SA80 style safety, only on a glock. Glock supplied both a normal G17 and the modified one.

However, a few news articles (so they'll be of limited accuracy I know) are suggesting the safety is built into the actual trigger.

 

[TPI]

oh i like the SA80's style of safety but on a Pistol i'm a little curious i must admit.

do prefer the standard G17 though

 

[Airsoft-Ed]

The Glock's trigger already has a safety, of sorts, built in.

You have to depress both sections of it fully.

 

[Hubert]

The Glock's trigger already has a safety, of sorts, built in.

You have to depress both sections of it fully.

But as quite a few people have unintentionally shown over the years, this is fairly easy to do accidentally. There's plenty of firearms blogs/website etc that have reports of people who had a holstered glock, they sat down at an odd angle and promptly shot themselves in the arse. (Or other body part)

I think the reasoning behind the safety is to make doubly sure that this can't happen (easily). Can you imagine the flak the MoD will get if someone accidentally ND's their new Glock, severely wounding/actually killing themself? If you thought the SA80-A1 produced some strong media comment, imagine what this would do.

The theory behind the SA80 bar style safety is muscle memory. They've used that kind of safety so often it comes naturally to them.

I have to admit I'll be interested to see this. Ages ago I saw a photo of the early prototype, and there wasn't much visually different to a normal Glock 17.

That said - someone I know was saying that it's just a normal Glock. No extra safety, just a bog-standard Glock 17, and the media have misunderstood when the MoD/Glock has explained the safety.

 

[Airsoft-Ed]

I guess we'll just have to wait and see how it develops.

I hope if it does have a push through safety they'll make an airsoft version of it so I can get one if I ever want to update my loadout. I doubt they ever will though.

So here's to hoping they either go with the standard Gen4, of the safety sees some internal, non-aesthetic tweaks.

 

[The Leprechaun!]

Re the holster, similar to the Gen III Serpa's? (like Dave's Blackhawk XDM holster)

With the weapon itself, its a good call on actually having a new safety put in (if indeed they are and the media hasn't monged it :L Not a big fan of Glock's apparent trigger "safety" anyway) and its very useful have it in the same place as the rifle.

 

[M_P]

This cameup on my news feed

www.army.mod.uk/news/24697.aspx

 

[Nutster]

Thinking about the safety, the sigs don't have one, and as far as I know we've been doing ok with them

 

[Deva]

There's lots of things people have been doing without issue for years, but it gets changed. "Health and Safety" for you.

 

[Airsoft-Ed]

This cameup on my news feed

www.army.mod.uk/news/24697.aspx

Weird timing that appearing now, eh?

Well it looks like the standard Gen4s are getting issued then, I might actually pick one up at some point.

 

[iAcorn]

I'm not a huge fan of the Glocks to be honest. But I think it's for aesthetic reasons rather than functionality. Although I do think the safety system is... well dumb to be honest. Having to use a second hand to put the safety on and off. Plus it takes additional time to do. I think it's just silly. Pretty much every other safety system out there beats the Glock imo. But Im no expert and I'm probably bias against them. I have a Glock replica which fires blanks (I use for sound design) so I have a tad bit of experience with them. not a lot though.

Does anybody else have a different side-arm they think would have been a good contender to replace the Browning?

I think the Glock has it right in terms of being modern, using polymer to make it lighter and having a high round magazine. Much like the PX4. 17 rounds standard, more compact and much better safety features. Only thing I think is a downside is the hammer is slightly exposed so perhaps grime and muck can get in there?

As I said, no personal experience or anything and I am in no way qualified to talk about such things... You may bash if you want

 

[Airsoft-Ed]

Not having a bash, but what do you mean when you say it needs another hand to turn it off? The Glocks don't have any kind of safety catch, they just have a specially designed sort of double trigger and that only takes 1 finger to deactivate, not another hand.

If you're used to a blank firer then maybe that has an added safety?

Or are you thinking of the fire selector on the G18, on the top, back left of the slide?

I think they ought to have gone with the Sig personally, the US found it to be the most effective, efficient, accurate and reliable pistol they tested when they were looking for a replacement for the M1911, they only reason Beretta won the contract was because they agreed to give the US the rights to manufacture them in the US, whereas Sig refused, making the Sigs too expensive to have built and shipped over.

Here in the UK however, Switzerland is a stones throw away and we have a stronger currency lol. I think Sigs are the most ergonomic pistols, of all the ones I've held, I think it's great how the mag release, decocker and slide release are all within easy reach of the thumb on your shooting hand, without having to shift your grip. The angle of the grip makes them easy to shoot instinctively and they're famously accurate.

There's nothing Glocks offer that I think is better, apart from them being lighter and having a high mag cap. But obviously those two single things take providence if you're a soldier in Afghanistan.

 

[iAcorn]

Not having a bash, but what do you mean when you say it needs another hand to turn it off? The Glocks don't have any kind of safety catch, they just have a specially designed sort of double trigger and that only takes 1 finger to deactivate, not another hand.

If you're used to a blank firer then maybe that has an added safety?

Or are you thinking of the fire selector on the G18, on the top, back left of the slide?

Never used a Glock so I may be confusing the fire selector with the safety. On my blank theres a little catch around the middle of the pistol which I have to use my left hands fingers to push/pull up/down in order to toggle the safety... So you're telling me a REPLICA that fires BLANKS has mroe safety features than the real steel which can KILL PEOPLE... hahah!

 

[Airsoft-Ed]

That sounds like the take down lever, but I've never used a blank firer so I can't be sure...

I guess it doesn't matter at the end of the day lol

 

[Hubert]

The thing about the SIGs is that they have a double action only (DAO) trigger system and a de-cocker.

This means you can chamber a round, and de-cock the pistol when you holster it. When you want to fire, the trigger is now two stages, with a longer pull than normal - after the first shot, the pistol reverts to the normal one-stage pull.

It is incredibly hard to ND a SIG/DAO pistol when it's holstered - but not impossible. I've never read of anyone doing it. By comparison, there are plenty of stories appearing on firearms blogs of someone ND'ing a holstered Glock (or pistols with similar trigger and safety systems).

I prefer SIGs hand down. Ergonomically they're brilliant (IMO), I think they look awesome, and they are (when issued with good quality magazines) incredibly reliable - there's a reason why several SF units use them. But, since the Glock contract was considerably cheaper, and I'm not in the armed forces, it doesn't matter which I prefer.

At least now I suppose anyone running around in Battlefield 3 with an L85/L86 and Glock 17 can now legitimately say they're using a British loadout though :lol: ...