Site Banned all C02

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Well, at my home site, no chrono equals no play, so there's no dodging. Gnu cable tied to mark it as Chrono'd, with different colour each week so there's no funny business.

Can understand why it's banned if its an insurance thing. A shame really but money and litigation talks; if insurer says no, then that's the end of it...

The way I see it, without meaning to sound harsh... if it's enough of an issue, go elsewhere.

 

[Rogerborg]

I'd assume ignorance rather than a higher level of information on the part of insurers.

But to be fair, there are a fair number of CO2 pistols that do come in super-spicy, and let's remember that the people discussing this here are very much the exception rather than the rule as far as airsoft players go.  How many times have we seen new players ask "What BBs to get under 350fps?" or similar?

I like to use the What Would Ex-Workmate Eddy Do? test as my litmus test for a typical player.  He's never set his own hops, doesn't know what his G&G CM16 or green gas R17 are shooting at, just that they pass chrono, and has asked me over and over whether his pistol is CO2 or not (it's gas, and CO2 is a gas, right?).  He's not dumb (he's actually very smart), or dishonest: he's just completely uninterested in any of these things compared to pulling the trigger.

And it's not just players that are the issue.  I've heard a marshal at a (defunct) site say quite openly that his job is to get players through chrono, not to stop them.  I heard him telling his mates that if they loaded 0.4g then he wouldn't know any different and he could honestly say that he'd seen them come out at under 350fps.  Seems like a curious form of integrity, but I doubt that it's unique.

Given all that, I can see why some sites or insurers just say no on anything that's likely to run hot.

 

[kasaran]

They classed co2 as being a airgun not airsoft so that makes insurance void. 

I think insurance requirements based on this is probably fairly likely.  Plenty or risk assessments are lazy copy paste jobs and i can imagine someone who knows airguns wouldnt care to learn the difference when the power source is the same. 

Had my employer argue with a larger company's H&S for requireing 6 point ppe to run a gps across a farmers field.  at what point is a hard hat necessary among dog walkers? we knew they couldnt come up with a valid justification when they then refered to it as a uniform for the project.... because ppe items have to be relevant to the task, and they couldnt be arsed to amend the ppe to the specific tasks on the scheme....

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

If RAs are copy and paste jobs they aren't fit for purpose nor legally correct. Sounds like someone couldn't be arsed updating their RA which makes an arse out of the whole thing.

I do RAs as part of my job, in each case risks have to be identified, rated and mitigated appropriately as much as reasonably practical. Banning everything on a blanket basis or copy and pasting is never an option.

The problem is, all too often H&S/RAs are used as a justification to stop stuff if someone wants an excuse to stop stuff happening or can't be arsed doing something.

 

[Rogerborg]

If RAs are copy and paste jobs they aren't fit for purpose nor legally correct.

SAFETY DATA SHEET DE-IONISED WATER

EYE CONTACT Immediately flush with plenty of water for up to 15 minutes.

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/416313.pdf

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

SAFETY DATA SHEET DE-IONISED WATER

EYE CONTACT Immediately flush with plenty of water for up to 15 minutes.

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/416313.pdf

As ridiculous as it seems, deionised water lacks the salt in normal tears and exposure, apparently, can cause irritation and inflammation. Its also not guaranteed to be sterile.

Over zealous yes, borderline farcical, but there it is.

Best one I heard was during last year. Safety notice put out regarding hand sanitiser. Genuine one in a million case. Apparently someone sanitised their hands, didnt allow it to dry first, touched metal and the static shock ignited the sanitiser causing serious burns...

 

[Rogerborg]

As ridiculous as it seems, deionised water lacks the salt in normal tears

What sort of salty water would you flush it with?

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Exactly!

 

[Fatboy40]

What sort of salty water would you flush it with?

The tears of those no longer able to use CO2 ?

 

[colinjallen]

One of my local sites sentinel has these rules. No CO2, no DMR and no snipers.

DMR and snipers is because the ranges, which are short to med so no need for such RIF's.

Now CO2 is because of insurance and not a so much a site rule, but a rule enforced on them. 

Going back through our insurance documents, there is no mention of CO2.  One clause that did always intrigue me was this one in one of the documents:

11) any site storing, issuing or selling pyrotechnics must have a current “Registered Premises Licence” issued under the requirements of the Explosives Act, 1875 and 1923.

 

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

The tears of those no longer able to use CO2 ?

That's a transplant!  ?

11) any site storing, issuing or selling pyrotechnics must have a current “Registered Premises Licence” issued under the requirements of the Explosives Act, 1875 and 1923.

The 1875 Act covers the possession of explosion with intent to endanger life or property, the 1923 Act is more concerned with general use and possession of explosives and pressure devices.

Both are much amended, e.g. the 1875 Act covers explosives not available when first drafted.  

A mate was allowed to keep stocks of nitro powder in his shop (propellant) but not black powder (an explosive) because of the proximity of other businesses.   In another LA area, a local shop is not permitted to keep MKV bangs in a retail unit in a shopping centre.  I think that it's another area of fuzzy legislation much re-codified and much interpreted by many actors.  

 

[kasaran]

the no running on site clause on the Freefirezone insurance waiver always amused me...

View attachment 83402

 

[colinjallen]

That's a transplant!  ?

The 1875 Act covers the possession of explosion with intent to endanger life or property, the 1923 Act is more concerned with general use and possession of explosives and pressure devices.

Both are much amended, e.g. the 1875 Act covers explosives not available when first drafted.  

A mate was allowed to keep stocks of nitro powder in his shop (propellant) but not black powder (an explosive) because of the proximity of other businesses.   In another LA area, a local shop is not permitted to keep MKV bangs in a retail unit in a shopping centre.  I think that it's another area of fuzzy legislation much re-codified and much interpreted by many actors.  

Yes, the Acts themselves were not the issue.  It just led me to wonder how many sites were potentially invalidating their insurance by selling pyro.

 

[Rogerborg]

the no running on site clause on the Freefirezone insurance waiver always amused me...

View attachment 83402

But also: "1. The game is physically and mentally intense and may require extreme exertion to play."

But no running.  Do they make you do push-ups before respawning?

Why do they call it a waiver?  Tell me they don't have...

"Release:

I hereby release, remise and forever discharge from any claims and liabilities whatsoever without limitations that I might have against FREE FIRE ZONE Ltd. and the owners of the property on which the game is being played."

It's never not funny that people actually waste their time writing that, or making you read or "agree" to it. ?

 

[Cannonfodder]

I remember playing at a site where they had you sign the same form as the paintballers. I knew this because they hadn't even bothered to change the word paintball to airsoft

 

[Keldon]

Ah, but what about weirdos like me who use "snipers" and "DMRs" that are 1.1J for no MED shenanigans? 

Then I would think they would allow you to play with such, just that normally DMR/Snipers are of a higher joules. 

 

[GiantKiwi]

Why do they call it a waiver?  Tell me they don't have...

"Release:

I hereby release, remise and forever discharge from any claims and liabilities whatsoever without limitations that I might have against FREE FIRE ZONE Ltd. and the owners of the property on which the game is being played."

It's never not funny that people actually waste their time writing that, or making you read or "agree" to it. ?

Like a certain large game event that only happens a few times a year with a group of a few hundred people including an essay regarding that? ?

 

[Rogerborg]

Like a certain large game event that only happens a few times a year with a group of a few hundred people including an essay regarding that? ?

I'm not sure to what that refers.

I do like the parts of their "waiver" that spell out the expectations on the player, that's useful.

What makes me chuckle is the bluff that you can waive your statutory right to sue a business over death or injury resulting from their negligence, which is explicitly voided by UCTA 1977 S2 (and equivalent Scotch legislation).  It's bad faith to even try and wiggle out of it.

[Shakes fist, yells at cloud]

 

[JamesAirsofterAgent]

But also: "1. The game is physically and mentally intense and may require extreme exertion to play."

But no running.  Do they make you do push-ups before respawning?

Why do they call it a waiver?  Tell me they don't have...

"Release:

I hereby release, remise and forever discharge from any claims and liabilities whatsoever without limitations that I might have against FREE FIRE ZONE Ltd. and the owners of the property on which the game is being played."

It's never not funny that people actually waste their time writing that, or making you read or "agree" to it. ?

Is this the same for all airsoft sites that make you sign a waiver before a game? It doesn't actually do anything?

 

[Tommikka]

Is this the same for all airsoft sites that make you sign a waiver before a game? It doesn't actually do anything?

A badly written waiver is worthless - for example - “Wing and a prayer enterprises are not liable for killing customers and don’t have to consider basic safety such as the bottomless pit”

But a properly written waiver is valid such as “Safety conscious enterprises are not responsible for you ripping off all your gear and going full Rambo”

Rather than the deceptive short name of ‘waiver’ the document is an agreement between the business and the customer that they both understand what is supposed to happen and both will fulfill their respective responsibilities