Site Banned all C02

[colinjallen]

Yeah, but chrono time is already busy testing primaries so testing pistols as well could double that time.

True; however, that is for the site to deal with.

 

[EDcase]

which isn't an excuse.

True; however, that is for the site to deal with.

Like I said, I'm not going to worry about it ?

 

[Tommikka]

Yeah, but chrono time is already busy testing primaries so testing pistols as well could double that time.

If it has not been chrono checked then it should not be used

If secondaries are not checked then no secondaries should be allowed 

When I began at scenario paintball events there were long queues at the chrono and air fill stations 

At the chrono people were checking, adjusting, checking, adjusting etc at a limited number of chrono points.

I bought my own handheld, chronoed myself and then went to the official chrono - it would be slightly out.  If I was a little below then I didn’t squeeze out adjustments for a few FPS, if high I would adjust and rechrono.

I also chronoed as soon as possible rather than dithering and chatting - the queues were always at their worst when the organisers were trying to herd the sheep to get games started 

Sites brought in more chronos so players can get through more quickly & tinkerers can tinker to one side, they standardised limits between events so players didn’t keep upping and lowering each week, players learnt that if they didn’t get their act together they were going to miss game on

A similar thing with air fills.  I began events with a 3000psi system, the big queues were at the 4500psi fill points.

When I ‘upgraded’ to 4500psi, rather than stand in the morning queue for 4500 I could get 3000, chrono and come back while others were still queuing 

Sites would then start up the fill stations earlier, bring in an extra air specialist for large events etc.  Players also learned to avoid queue bottle necks 

Airsoft in the UK existed when I began paintball, there are seemingly more regular airsofters than regular paintballers - it should be better organised

Either we don’t talk about the ‘good’ ones and the ‘bad’ ones don’t care / have not learned the lessons yet 

 

[Cannonfodder]

My old site had a ban on CO2 and HPA. Why? No idea and tbh I don't really care why as I wasn't running the games. At the end of the day its down to site owners to decide what rules the do and don't want to implement. If people don't like a site's rules then don't play there rather than moaning about it online 

 

[Dratsab]

If you're sure its below limits then get it chrono'd at the site without saying its Co2 or use it anyway.  If you get banned then you haven't lost much.

Not sure encouraging players to break site rules (no matter how ridiculous you believe that rule to be) and just accept a ban if/when it happens is a good look.

Everyone should play by the rules if you don't like the rules find another site. It's pretty simple.

 

[EDcase]

I didn't encourage anything.   Just pointing out options that anyone can think of whether they admit to them or not.

Saying someone could walk off a cliff doesn't encourage people to do so...

 

[Dratsab]

Scratch that

There was no use of "could" It's a clear suggestion

 

[EDcase]

Ahhh I see, this is now an exercise in pedantry.

Yup ?

 

[Keldon]

One of my local sites sentinel has these rules. No CO2, no DMR and no snipers.

DMR and snipers is because the ranges, which are short to med so no need for such RIF's.

Now CO2 is because of insurance and not a so much a site rule, but a rule enforced on them. 

 

[Cannonfodder]

That's a good point about insurance. As much as folk like to call site owners either lazy or stupid for having these rules, for all we know they could have their hands tied by the insurance company

 

[Adolf Hamster]

That's a good point about insurance. As much as folk like to call site owners either lazy or stupid for having these rules, for all we know they could have their hands tied by the insurance company

the skeptic in me does wonder how often this is genuinely an insurance requirement rather than a hand-waving exercise.

because if the insurance were going into such specifics then it'd be more than just co2 on the list to be banned.

 

[Groot]

Sites banning HPA?

View attachment 83358

 

[Impulse]

One of my local sites sentinel has these rules. No CO2, no DMR and no snipers.

DMR and snipers is because the ranges, which are short to med so no need for such RIF's.

Now CO2 is because of insurance and not a so much a site rule, but a rule enforced on them. 

Ah, but what about weirdos like me who use "snipers" and "DMRs" that are 1.1J for no MED shenanigans? 

 

[MagpieTactical]

which isn't an excuse.

Agreed, my site chrono all sidearm too.  I can't think of what legal defense a site would have if someone got badly hurt by an overpowered unchronoed pistol 

 

[Rogerborg]

Either we don’t talk about the ‘good’ ones and the ‘bad’ ones don’t care / have not learned the lessons yet

Winds me up a treat when "Chrono is open" means most of the marshal team sitting in the office bantering while the newest recruit is sent out with one unit and sometimes no real understanding of what he's doing.  What I'd like to see is it being done mob handed, including scouring the safe zone to at least try and spot people who are treating it as optional.  Less matey-mate-mates, more zero-tolerance, maximum-deterrence.

Even at better sites, there's far too little checking at game-on to spot stuff that's been "forgotten", and as @EDcase unpalatably but correctly points out, even blanket bans are only as good as the in-game enforcement.

Blanket bans are like dog breed specific legislation.  Unfair, overly general, punish the decent majority, it's the owner, not the weapon (dog), and so on.

But on the other hand, when a dog rips Little Timmy to bits while its owner says "Bloodslaya wouldn't hurt a fly, soft as butter" and it's a pit bull every time, eventually you spot a pattern.

 

[Druid799]

Black ops Bristol used to have a Co2 ban(don’t know about now as it’s being run by new management) in place due to the vagaries you can have with the fps output , where as ‘traditional’ gas guns generally seem to run more consistently and on the whole do seem to run a lower FPS than the Co2 pistols . So just made life easier all around .

 

[Tommikka]

That's a good point about insurance. As much as folk like to call site owners either lazy or stupid for having these rules, for all we know they could have their hands tied by the insurance company

the skeptic in me does wonder how often this is genuinely an insurance requirement rather than a hand-waving exercise.

because if the insurance were going into such specifics then it'd be more than just co2 on the list to be banned.

Good points there on insurance 

It is a two way street - Insurers dictating insurance requirements into site rules / policies

Site rules / policies set based on risk assessments and mitigations

Or they could/should be a two (or multi) way street …….
 

Best practice bottom up from sites, through a representative body to insurers 

and then from insurers to sites

The principles will be the same - airsoft is a game of shooting people with little plastic balls using suitably designed airsoft guns in an appropriate environment 

That environment ought to have controls between safe areas, playing areas, and without the general public strolling along 

Woodland, urban, indoor, etc are all different with their own complexities 

Individual sites vary as well  

Does a site and its staff understand why things are in the insurance/risk assessment/rules, or did they just purchase insurance? …… and therefore do they put the processes into practice or give them lip service with a waiver form?

 

[EDcase]

Insurance bans are either due to incidents where they had to make large payouts or where they judge a high risk of such.

So if its due to insurance bans there's not much sites can do.

 

[Tommikka]

Did the insurer or the site react to something specific regarding co2?

 I certainly reacted for a moment when propane was mentioned earlier in the thread.
Then I remembered that ‘green gas’ is propane 

Why did I react initially ?  Because I imagined someone using a pot metal airsoft gun with little explosions of propane ignition —— I don’t fancy being around that

(((((However I do know of the Tippman C3, a paintball gun - which ignites propane))))

 

[enzo47]

Got this rule at my local site. Its a Cqb site so they dont allow snipers and dmr or any rifle over 350 fps.  Any Co2 are also not allowed. I was told it was due to insurance. They classed co2 as being a airgun not airsoft so that makes insurance void. 

Im myself looking for other sites that dont have this restrictions. which are not woodlands but more urban settings