Wolverine Bolt

proffrink said:
I'd agree that the SDiK does look better on paper simply because of the price. The Bolt brings nothing new to the table except a fairly reputable brand, but Mancraft have already proven that they can make a quality product so that's a little moot.

Plus there's the whole dumb grip line thing.
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What is the grip line thing?

Hef Legend said:
The battery would be my concern too, a lipo potentially leaking into the guns internals or being a pain in the ass to change etc
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Does the battery in an AEG worry you the same way?

proffrink said:
I suppose. Though an electric solenoid may mean slightly better gas consumption. I guess we'll have to reserve judgement.
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The gas consumption is suggested around 150 shots at 2j which if correct is certainly skirmishable. They are also designing a specific version of the WRAITH to go with this which hopefully will fit in the stock along with the reg.

edit: the vid I meant to post is the one Samurai posted below....

 
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The gas consumption thing sounds very interesting, but we'll have to see. Right now my SDiK can put out 2.2J about 75 times before it begins to drop, so that's a really marked improvement. I'd be curious to know what barrel they were using though, because I'm using a 433mm 6.13mm.

The stock bit I'm also interested to see. I suppose it depends on the Wraith's dimensions and how easy it really is to remove the rear of it to reinsert a bulb. I've seen a couple of videos, but cradling it in such a way that it wouldn't just rotate is something I'd quite like to see.

Honestly it does look very interesting. £280 interesting I'm really not sure.

 
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I wonder if the line will be possible to swap out for a more flexible one or if by the time it is in production it has a different set up.

 
I've edited my post because - on the 45o trigger at least - it seems like routing the macro to the stock - even a 6mm one - would actually be quite easy. A Zero trigger or any 90o trigger is likely going to cause a real problem, but we're assuming that's not the case because you don't need one. There's still the issue of joining it up in the stock though, and I'm really not sure how you could do that. If the Wraith needs to be removable then that's an impossible task as 6mm just won't flex, and using a 4mm could mean potential problems with getting the right Joule output as the macro line on something like this basically acts as the expansion chamber. Probably not something you couldn't compromise for though.

I realise one big selling point of the Wraith is how it doesn't need to be moved and how easy it is to switch bulbs. That will be the real tell here - just how easy it is to install. If it has a push fitting then it's possible you could just line it up and then push it into the stock and onto the line, but more likely I think people may have to in some way install the line with the receiver out so they can line it up from both ends. Removing the Wraith in the middle of shooting just isn't going to be able to happen with that 6mm macro. A push fitting adapter may fix this but those things always leak after a while - especially if they're being constantly pushed and pulled as the Wraith is removed and replaced in the stock.

A lot of questions basically. Honestly I'm happy to reserve judgement because the solenoid has real potential to fix the efficiency niggle of the SDiK.

 
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just watched a vid on the WRAITH, the VSR version will fit in the stock of the gun! :-)

 
Does look pretty fascinating, yeh. Seems they're using an internal reservoir as an expansion chamber, which is a good idea.

PT247 said:
just watched a vid on the WRAITH, the VSR version will fit in the stock of the gun! :-)
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Can you link us? :)

Edit:

Two additional small worries: The first is that now - and this probably should have been obviously later - the system isn't really as waterproof as a purely pneumatic one anymore. Admittedly you can do a huge amount to mitigate this, but my primary worry is just moisture collecting in the stock and shorting something close to the battery. I'd argue that snipers spend a little more time closer to the ground and puddles or just sitting in one position in the rain.

My second worry was just how the trigger actuates - it's now electric, which means the 'break' could be mushy like a lot of AEGs. Gunna have to wait and see on this one though.

 
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Oh, I thought they were showing one off. I know they said they had one in the works.

 
proffrink said:
Two additional small worries: The first is that now - and this probably should have been obviously later - the system isn't really as waterproof as a purely pneumatic one anymore. Admittedly you can do a huge amount to mitigate this, but my primary worry is just moisture collecting in the stock and shorting something close to the battery. I'd argue that snipers spend a little more time closer to the ground and puddles or just sitting in one position in the rain.

My second worry was just how the trigger actuates - it's now electric, which means the 'break' could be mushy like a lot of AEGs. Gunna have to wait and see on this one though.
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I've never had a single issue with batteries in the largest downpours in all my AEGs, some front and some rear wired, even had a battery out the side on one AEG in a cloth pistol pouch. I honestly have never had an issue with moisture in my stock on the VSR either although if it had a CO2 bulb that needed changing mid game in the pouring rain it might get a little moisture in it but with around 150 shots I'd seldom need to change the bulb in most games I play anywhere but in the safezone.

As with the trigger, it is a microswitch so I imagine it'd be just like the trigger pull on an AEG fitted with a BTC Spectre. Hopefully it'd have a solid click to it so you could rest on the break point.

Something that does concern me from the vids I've seen of the BOLT system in a gun is that it will fire weather cocked or not so would need a safety catch fitted (mine currently has no safety as running the Laylax Zero Trigger), but by the looks of it I'll need to refit the OE TM trigger as the BOLT system requires a 45' trigger so should get the safety catch back.

 
Sounds good. I have seen many cheap Wells etc. with water-ridden stocks because of the cracks in them. The TM VSRs are much better and some brands are poop. Either way, properly shrouded cable shouldn't have any issues but you still wouldn't want to submerge it I guess. Though how often does that happen in airsoft anyway.

 
PT247 said:
I wonder if the line will be possible to swap out for a more flexible one or if by the time it is in production it has a different set up.
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I'm intrigued by that from an engineering standpoint. Surely ANY 6mm ID airline could be used assuming it is rated sufficiently highly and doesn't kink easily? Or even fit a reducer and use a smaller bore pipe?

 
Yeh, a 6mm macro just won't flex properly: I meant that one is going to have to convert it to 4mm at most. Believe me, I tried a 6mm line in the SDiK to get a bit more CO2 into the line.

 
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there are plenty of flexible hose that can take the pressure but are not necessarily going to be durable for the roughty toughty airsoft environment. I believe the hose used in fish tanks can take the pressure and is very flexible but it would tear very easily and damage. I may be mistaken but in the vids of this BOLT kit it looks to me like the macro is in sections with shorter more flexible sections to allow it to be shaped/flexed, anyone else see that from them?

edit: braided line could work but would add cost

 
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The problem here is that 6mm macro is never going to be flexible enough to allow you to coil it up in the stock and remove the Wraith. This is a problem for installation only really, but we'll see.

4mm is fine and is what the SDiK uses already but it comes out of the system as a 4mm line, which is what allows you to use it with zero triggers and other 90o triggers as it can run down where the sear used to be. The Bolt is confined to a 6mm line and I'm sure why they did that because it doesn't need that volume. Would have been marginally more clever to have an adapter to fit the 6mm QDs on the end that was removable to leave a 4mm line. I dunno.

Lozart said:
What about a braided line?
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I'm not sure what you mean? :) Braided lines are just rubber lines with material ontop of them to stop them getting cut on stuff or kinking, but at the cost of some flexibility.

 
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proffrink said:
I'm not sure what you mean? :) Braided lines are just rubber lines with material ontop of them to stop them getting cut on stuff or kinking, but at the cost of some flexibility.
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Nylon braided line as used on things like airbrush hoses allow a more flexible line with the added benefit of not kinking.

 
I've never seen these. Do you have a link?

Intrinsically is the point of the braiding not to be to withstand pressure but instead to be a protective shield and to stop it kinking though? I don't see how nylon braiding adds flexibility.

 
on a motorcycle brake line rubber stretches when pressurised making the brakes less effective, they are braided to stop them being able to swell which gives a more consistent feel. With this in mind an HPA rig with the reg on the bottle and a line to the gun having it braided would be a possible advantage on consistency. So WRT the BOLT it should also help with that but in a lesser extent as the line is much shorter if running CO2 in the stock.

It would also protect from damage allowing a softer more flexible inner hose but as Proffrink stated, it would add stiffness to the hose so destroy the point of using the more flexible hose.

 
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