Why we chrono

[Adolf Hamster]

Wouldn't work

It would require cheaters to straight up lie, follow up with a spot check and zero tolerance policy

 

[gasman]

Pretty disappointing that I as an hpa player have never had my reg rechecked for the lock or been spot chronoed. Does make you think

Perhaps you look honest and probably been watched without you knowing it.

We watch certain players that seem to lack honesty enough to even take their hits!

How long I wonder before we put up cameras to watch players more closely big brother is coming everywhere.

So what my gripe is player Marshalls and Marshalls in general at a site who either fail to get chrono'd or are blatantly ignoring the site rules using a hot weapon and not chronoing properly. 

As I tend not to post negative comments about a site but I'm think this is appropriate to the thread and educational for all. I will refrain from naming the site. 

So I arrived at the site nice and early on the day and got my gear sorted. When they opened chrono I proceeded to start getting my arsenal chrono'd. When I went up with my final weapon the player Marshall chronoing was struggling to hold the chrono and test his personal weapon so I offered to hold the chrono while he fired. He proceeded to put some 0.2g Bb's in his mag and started firing over the site limit approx 360 fps. As I'm standing there he informs me that his gun always fires hot on the first few shots so steps to the side and fires a few bursts of full auto then returns to fire through the chrono and amazingly it's under.

What he failed to realise is that I had noticed that he must have fired all the 0.2g Bb's before he stepped back to the chrono so of course it was under as he was using heavier ammo. But as he was chronoing no one at the site checked his weapon not even another Marshall on the day. Which again can lead to abuse of the rules and if the Marshall is prepared to cheat the chrono what else will not be done properly. 

I think you should name the site! My son in law seems to cause lost of pain with his pair of midget m4s and we always make a point of chronoing his guns to show they are at best 310FPS. It is just when people are rushed  and up close the pain seems more intense. I chronoed mine and found one had gained nearly 10 fps on the last time I did it at home, putting it over 350 no problem back in the bag and that was a lot less than ten percent. If I come across a marshal that is over I will be the first to make a noise about it THEY should Know better!!!!!

 

[TheFull9]

Our site Chrono's at the start of the day, and has during the last year gone over to chrono on joules using game weight BB's . Aimed mostly at keeping the snipers under limit allowing for joule creep I prefer it as a system . Obviously it requires that players are honest about the weight they are using, although if the marshal has any doubts he will ask you to fire some site supplied .2's to cross check. Can the system be cheated ? yes it can, but it's hard to think of something that can't that isn't prohibitively time consuming. Random  checking does help though.

Glad to hear this is finally happening some places.  I don't think its' quite as epidemic an issue as some people imply given the sheer numbers of G&G combat machines out there, but when it comes to the less common weapons (non-electric ones especially) I think there will be a fair few folks who are either straight cheating or so ignorant of the basic science they don't even realise they're shooting at excessive muzzle energies.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

I think there will be a fair few folks who are either straight cheating or so ignorant of the basic science they don't even realise they're shooting at excessive muzzle energies.

this is the sincher, folk who don't realise dropping a longer barrel in their gbb to "help accuracy" is just pushing their fps up, or the accidental joule creepers, hell even the ones who don't even understand that 300fps on a .2g is not the same thing as 300fps on a .4g

and at least it would require a cheater to straight up lie about the weight they were using, zero tolerance after that point.

 

[gasman]

What is it the police would say ignorance is no excuse. Druid spoke about people asking questions which are basic and covered here on this forum in so many places I do not find I don,t understand an excuse

 

[TheFull9]

Certainly nobody here is saying ignorance is an excuse, far from it.  Ignorance is just the fact of the matter, there's no basic training for airsoft.  The bar for entry is having a bit of money (comparatively small amount in comparison to some hobbies) and the ability to get to a skirmish site and shoot a rif.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

What is it the police would say ignorance is no excuse. Druid spoke about people asking questions which are basic and covered here on this forum in so many places I do not find I don,t understand an excuse

Except the fact some players don't ever look on forums and facebook and just go play.

I played for about a year and a half before I ever looked at anything.

 

[Tiercel]

I also think that most people dont understand/care about joule creep... its the current "in" buzzword that some people like to kick up a stink about and get all holier than thou about it. Id certainly never heard of it til recently. Site wants < 350/500 on 0.2 then thats what people aim to abide by. Mostly.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

I also think that most people dont understand/care about joule creep... its the current "in" buzzword that some people like to kick up a stink about and get all holier than thou about it. Id certainly never heard of it til recently. Site wants < 350/500 on 0.2 then thats what people aim to abide by. Mostly.

^^^THIS^^^

Joule creep does occur but those extra fps are such a small difference that you have to wonder if it is really worth the fuss people make about it.

 

[Rogerborg]

I think its your duty to mention where this was...

I'd suggest that the first thing to be done is to approach the site owner.  If they don't know that it's going on, how can they stop it?

I should note that my local CQB site is rock solid on ensuring that nobody can plead ignorance of the requirement to get chronoed and tagged.

I'd just like them to do more in-game testing, and to be a bit less trusting of regulars, including the marshals and myself.  I like getting chronoed in-game: it takes a few seconds and its visible evidence that they're on the hunt for rogues.

 

[Musica]

I should note that my local CQB site is rock solid on ensuring that nobody can plead ignorance of the requirement to get chronoed and tagged.

I'd just like them to do more in-game testing, and to be a bit less trusting of regulars, including the marshals and myself.  I like getting chronoed in-game: it takes a few seconds and its visible evidence that they're on the hunt for rogues.

They never chrono'd my TM pistol just asked the gas seems abusable maybe they just know a TM isn't likely to fire over 350?

I  wish they would chrono in game more. I've liturally never seen any site do it but to be fair to FWG it was 1 marshal so he would struggle. He chronod 20-25 guys in the time the depot do about 10 and he writes the chrono result on your arm band.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

They never chrono'd my TM pistol just asked the gas seems abusable maybe they just know a TM isn't likely to fire over 350?

ahh yes the old "co2 pistol loud therefore is hot" fallacy

 

[Prisce]

Again, this is where I see AP(Airsoft Plantation) as a step ahead. 

They operate a trust system. It’s your responsibility to get your gun chronoed. No tags, no Marshall to check.

But what they do do is have a marshal with a chrono out every single game spot checking people, if your caught .01J over(yea they measure In joules), or can’t name the weight BB your using, your off to the safe zone. Then your not allowed back in game until the Marshall comes back and chronos your gun on a bb weight they know, if it’s safe(this is usually a different gun) they will allow you 1 more chance, if it’s not, good luck getting back into a game.

I was caught once with a dodgy mag(literally 1 mag same bbs was producing , I think, a 20fps difference on .25s(was a brand new recoil mag)- the thread with the facts is on this forum somewhere. I proved this to them, they thought it was strange too, and let me straight back out, as long as I kept that mag in the safe zone. 

I feel safer at this site than others because I know they are vigilant.

 

[Rogerborg]

^^^^^^

 

[ProPain87]

The gaol are pretty good. You have to chrono on the weight you are using and they have some small digital scales to check. You get tagged and your not allowed in the game zone without the tag and last time I was there 90% of the players got chronoed again entering the game zone. They also chrono every pistol now.

In my opinion every site should chrono on joules because joule creep is a thing, especially with snipers and hpa. Some snipers can joule creep more than a joule if set up to do so.

me personally would rather have a gun that I could use everywhere without being a dick and cheating the chrono using .2s 

Also from what I’ve heard if you have an air rifle confiscated by the old bill they use a variety of weight pellets to check the power before you can have it back. “If” they ever did chrono an Airsoft gun I’d assume they would do the same ?‍

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

 Some snipers can joule creep more than a joule if set up to do so.

Highly doubt that joule creep is usually pretty low figures.

 

[Prisce]

The gaol are pretty good. You have to chrono on the weight you are using and they have some small digital scales to check. You get tagged and your not allowed in the game zone without the tag and last time I was there 90% of the players got chronoed again entering the game zone. They also chrono every pistol now.

In my opinion every site should chrono on joules because joule creep is a thing, especially with snipers and hpa. Some snipers can joule creep more than a joule if set up to do so.

me personally would rather have a gun that I could use everywhere without being a dick and cheating the chrono using .2s 

Also from what I’ve heard if you have an air rifle confiscated by the old bill they use a variety of weight pellets to check the power before you can have it back. “If” they ever did chrono an Airsoft gun I’d assume they would do the same ?‍

Because someone (really was accidental) arrived on site with an ASG Mk23 firing 435fps with the barrel extension on....he like the rest of us didn’t think it would be possible for a pistol to shoot that!

Highly doubt that joule creep is usually pretty low figures.

I can confirm a buddy with a SRS can creep 0.85J going from .2s to .48s.... we take a chrono with us to every game to make sure we measure in joules, no one wants to be that guy who actually hurts someone.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

I can confirm a buddy with a SRS can creep 0.85J going from .2s to .48s.... we take a chrono with us to every game to make sure we measure in joules, no one wants to be that guy who actually hurts someone.

I should imagine a big part of that is the hop being set for 0.48 which makes a huge difference, bigger than any actual joule creep.

That is why snipers running heavy ammo should be tested on what they say and on 0.4s

 

[Rogerborg]

Also from what I’ve heard if you have an air rifle confiscated by the old bill they use a variety of weight pellets to check the power before you can have it back. “If” they ever did chrono an Airsoft gun I’d assume they would do the same

Indeed, the power limits on the definition of an airsoft gun explicitly say "any missile". They could drop 6mm of depleted uranium in there.

That said, if it's not an airsoft gun, then it's an airgun, so no real worries.

I mean, unless you're in Scotland and not licensed to hold an air gun, or you're using green gas, in which case it can't be an airgun and it falls through to being a firearm.

 

[gasman]

My E&L AK without any hop will chrono at 367FPS with .2BB but with hop set to lift .25bbs will chrono with .2bbs below 350FPS. So does that make me a cheat no because I am using that hop setting in game with .25BBs at 317FPS. So many things that change FPS Hop, good or bad BBs, clean barrel or dirty even the temperature. I am happy to chrono anytime for anyone and a chrono is so cheap I think all air-softers can afford one then they can see what their changes to a gun does.

Air rifles in England tend to be tested by the police using super heavy magnum pellets thus creating the maximum possible joule figure.