Very disappointed with my TM 5.1 hicapa

[emilianoksa]

It has been kept in its box since I bought it from Eagle 6 several months ago.

I should have checked it over more thoroughly when it arrived., but I put it away intending to deal with it later, and never got round to it. There is a lesson to be learned here.

I thought that TM pistols were famous, amongst other things, for their quality control and fit - the so called tight tolerances. Yet the slide on my hicapa is so loose at the front that it rattles. The movement from side to side is substantial and when I move the gun in my hand it rattles so badly that it sounds like it is broken. The fit is better at the rear of the slide but appalling at the front.

I have disassembled and reassembled it several times, checked that everything was correctly in position and tried to find another explanation for the rattle. In doing so I have noticed an unpleasant burr on the outer barrel. It is not visible of course and so not a problem but this puts just another question mark against the famed TM quality control. In fairness to TM  I should point out that I have two other Marui pistols - an M9A1 and a Sig 226 E2 - and that neither of them have this problem. The slide to frame fit on both of them is excellent.

The rails on the 5.1 frame on which the slide moves are well to the rear , and there is nothing towards the front to hold the slide in place. I am wondering if this is a design fault. My AW Hicapa slide is tight, and my WE G17 is  good too.

Has anybody else come across this problem? Would fitting the rail to the bottom help to correct it? I can't see how it would.  

It is too late to send it back now, and that is my fault. Is there anything I can do to correct or limit the rattle?

 

[Guest]

Who says it’s too late? If you’ve had it less than a year, straight forward return under sale of goods act.

Less than six years and it gets more complicated, you have to prove it’s a manufacturing fault.

Personally, I’d call Eagle6 and explain the situation 

 

[emilianoksa]

Thanks for the reply.

So they aren't all like this?

Have I received a substandard product?

 

[Guest]

I’d need a video, but I’ve  owned two and not had any wobble issues at all

 

[Rogerborg]

Who says it’s too late? If you’ve had it less than a year, straight forward return under sale of goods act

Click to shrink...

Under 6 months, the assumption is that the fault was present at the point of sale.

Over 6 months, the burden of proof shifts the other way.

In any case, pragmatically it's down to how the retailer responds, and how you paid for it.

Best of luck.

 

[Tackle]

got 2 tms, even after a years of use they've not got your issues, sounds like a lemon that got past qc, or they didn't sell you a bodged up s/h one did they ?

 

[proffrink]

Does sound like a lemon. TM have built this reputation over two decades but I imagine some do slip through the cracks of QC.

 

[emilianoksa]

Thanks for the replies.

I bought the gun on the 6th December, so it is less than six months,  and since it has only been test fired, it is in mint condition. No marks or scratches, or anything.

There is nothing I could have done to it that would cause the slide to frame fit to be so loose. Even dropping it would not have caused this fault.

I am going to call Eagle 6 now.

They closed at 4 o'clock, so I will have to phone in the morning.

 

[emilianoksa]

To be honest with you, I wish I had bought another gun.

The HK 45 for example or the full length USP.

I know all Marui pistols are plastic, but the Hicapa series look even more plasticy than other TM guns.

In fact, in terms of appearance,  hicapas are my least favourite gun. I bought it, against my best judgement, because it was said to be very reliable and accurate, and perfect for skirmishing.

 

[Guest]

It’s a good gun, normally, but something more rugged might suit. Armorer Works make some very tough guns.

I’m with you on the H-Capa, too plasticky, I wouldn’t buy another TM version

 

[emilianoksa]

I have spoken to Eagle 6 today.

I was told that some looseness was probably to be expected with this particular model, and I got the impression the bloke thought I was worrying about nothing. He seemed to think it would be no different from the other models of the gun they had in stock.

I told him a bit of movement I could put up with, but the gun was rattling so badly I didn't believe it was normal. He suggested it was the outer and inner barrels that might be causing the rattle. So I checked these and it looks like he was right. There is more movement of the outer barrel than I would like but the real cause of the rattle is the inner barrel which is extremely loose and moves all over the place. 

So I would be grateful if you could advise me. Can I just add some tape to the inner barrel to stop it from rattling, and if so, what kind of tape? Will ordinary cellotape do or should I use something like electrical insulation tape?

 

[Wo1f]

Personally I use Teflon tape/ PTFE. Still a bit shit that they’ve basically just said it’s normal to shake itself to death. Love TM but I’ve never really been interested in the hi-capa. If I buy another one it will be in their HK line 

 

[Tackle]

eagle6 are talking bollocks, obviously trying to fob you off, its clearly faulty if its only been test fired.

tell them you'd like a refund or exchange, the rattles & tolerance issues your talking about sound more like 1st gen WE models.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Agreed, my 5.1 is at least third hand and god knows how old and how many rounds its seen but there is absolutely zero inner barrel wobble.

Outer barrel maybe but not the inner

 

[emilianoksa]

Thanks a lot for your concern boys. 

After going over everything again I think I have finally isolated the real problem. You must forgive me for being so slow on the uptake, but I am still relatively new to this.

The problem is the recoil rod and/or spring. There is too much lateral movement on it and not enough spring pressure to keep it tight to the hop up unit. It is very loose and it takes hardly any pressure to move the end bit in front of the hopup from side to side. Now, if I am right,  it may seem like a quick fix (not really as I don't have a suitable spring or washer) but that is not the point. This gun has been through quality control by Marui and should at least have been test fired by Eagle 6. 

I can only say that Fire Support are very good at checking items before despatch, and very helpful if things need to be returned.

I am not going to send it back to Eagle 6 because, if I do,  I feel I will end up paying for the postage.

If any of you could advise me on the best temporary short term fix for the recoil spring until I source another one, I would be grateful.  

I'm afraid I put a premium on customer service. Eagle 6 were prepared to look at the gun again, it is true, and I would never tell people not to buy from them,  but I didn't feel particularly well supported on this occasion.  I found the person I spoke to pleasant enough , but rather patronising at times.. When I told him people I had spoken to on forums had never experienced loud rattles on their hicapas he tended to dismiss it. I know people can say anything on a forum, and most people are rank amateurs like me,  but hobby forums also have plenty of members who are very knowledgeable and skilful at fixing and modifying guns, and some who are actually in the trade. I would tend to trust advice from one of our resident gurus on here more than that of a retailer I don't personally know. 

Thanks again.  

 

[Tackle]

no, he's dismissive because he wants to keep your money in his pocket, even though it still sounds like its faulty in some way, as @Adolfhamster has pointed out, his were s/h, as are both of mine with no issues.

if you feel the spring is the issue, you could try to stretch it, a little bit at a time, & throughout its length, until it takes up the slack (or wobble ?).

 

[emilianoksa]

Thanks.

I wanted to be charitable, but that's what I thought too.

 

[Wo1f]

Why did you buy from there out of curiosity? I have when I’m desperate but his prices are stupidly high. 

 

[emilianoksa]

Don't know. 

I got my first two Maruis from Fire Support. Good prices and excellent customer service with all my purchases from them.

They didn't have a 5.1 in stock when I was ready to buy so it was a toss up between Eagle 6 and Camoraids.  I preferred the Eagle6 website.

I was drawn to these two retailers because they seem to specialise in TM guns.

Next time, if I ever buy a HK, it will be Camoraids. Good prices and I am told good service.

Any way, I have completely cleaned and relubed the gun. It didn't really need it as it has not really been used. The lube job and some slight stretching of the spring has reduced the rattle somewhat, to the extent that it is now acceptable for skirmishing. 

I'll find a new spring or rubber washer for a longer term fix.. I mean all I had to do before was swing the gun gently from side to side and the recoil rod moved and rattled like fury.

I don't have the same pride of ownership for this pistol that I have for my others, which is not necessarily a negative thing; I won't feel as bad about the paint coming off as I holster and reholster itin my Nuprol paddle, which is quite a tight fit. And when it gets very tatty, I will just respray it. 

I always appreciate the help I get on this excellent forum whenever  I am struggling with something. 

Many thanks again.

 

[Steveocee]

I always appreciate the help I get on this excellent forum whenever  I am struggling with something. 

Click to shrink...

I may be a bit late to this party for you BUT it's worth dropping an email to Mike at Elite Shooting Centre. He does a lot of custom upgrade work on 5.1's so I'll bet you he throws away stock recoil springs like they are going out of fashion. Regularly he sells real TM spares cheap from units he's pre-upgraded so definitely worth a shot. (Also does some lovely stainless barrels which are exceptionally well priced).