Trying to make a small site

[AlexTheDark]

hey guys this is probably a bad idea ive been airsofting for 3 years now and i have spotted alot of abandoned warehouses and train stations etc near where i live in derby and im thinking of maybe getting a group together and trying to play a few games it wouldnt be offical but it would be just a bit of fun and you wouldnt have to go out your way to pay and if you live nearby you can always have a bit of fun instead of traveling to go to better sites since its cqb and there is a abandoned mental asylum near me so a bit spooky and fun so tell me if your intrested i live in derbyshire in derby  also it wouldnt be illegal as it isnt illegal unless theres signs saying tresspassing as ive searched online and checked in person

 

[Tommikka]

Don’t be too sure that it’s “not illegal” if there are no signs.

At the very minimum to gain entry the access would have to be open, and you must do no damage.

By playing airsoft you will be leaving evidence of your presence unless you pickup every BB.

If it is ‘public property’ then you are able to access it - but cannot shoot in a public place

If it is ‘private property’ then the firing of air weapons is a firearms offence without the landowners permission, and the projectiles are not permitted to cross a boundary - without the next landowners permission.

Despite not being a licencable firearm airsoft does get covered within firearms legislation, and would classify as a low power air weapon, your only get out clause to that could be that airsoft within the lower energy limits has had an entry added as ‘not a firearm’.  You may need a good lawyer to argue that the definition applies and the intent of the law allows you to go off shooting on abandoned property that you don’t have authority to be on, and don’t have controlled access to prevent others getting in while you play.

There is the safety risk of controlled access.  So that you are not trespassing and have not broken in there must be free and open access.  This means any other member of the public could turn up. You are then playing airsoft with no regard to the safety of others. 
 

What if there is an accident?  You are organising this so take on liability for the risk to others

What if someone notices people with guns? You now have a police response

 

[AlexTheDark]

yeah your right to be fair i might have to speak to the council but that could take months cause there are perfectly safe like abandoned care homes and asylums that could be transformed into something really cool and spooky some of them still have computers and tvs and stuff in so you never know might be able to make a good safe zone haha

 

[#blackadder]

You’re right its a very bad idea . 

 

[Jedi_Master]

Very bad idea.

 

[E21A]

??‍

 

[Albiscuit]

There is a reason someone else has not done this elsewhere!! 

I would love love to see your letter to the council though, and their response   

 

[Tackle]

Don't even think about it, as Tommika has correctly pointed out, there are so many legal pitfalls, all of which could result in you & your friends getting criminal records (even a caution is a criminal record !), & also putting Airsoft in a very poor light, which is bad for all of us.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

I dont think theres anything more to add to tommikka's summation.

If you want to do it as a site then perhaps an opportunity to do it as a business venture? Just charge enough to cover rent/insurance costs?

If its a good location and no local competition could be a winner.

 

[remus]

aye dont risk it, there a reason you hae to pay sites fees- insurance and all. if Theres abandoned sites that would be suitable then perhaps lookito renting it and insuring. potentially a huge cost from what iv seen of airsoft insureance. would be ace if you could get like roaming insurance and ability to use a site for a month ten move to another if there really is a lot of options. worth inquiring a s to costs though... 

 

[clumpyedge]

 

[Uncle Pauly]

Honestly, this sounds like a terrible idea and the sort of thing that results in armed Police turning up and airsoft getting a shitload of bad press. Either that or it's the script from an episode of Casualty... and numerous other reasons why you should never trespass in abandoned buildings carrying imitation firearms.

It does however sound that there's an opportunity to potentially turn some of those disused sites into skirmish venues, but you'd need to do so via the proper channels (which would involve setting up a legal entity capable of being liability for people's safety).

 

[Steveocee]

Horrific idea, just because it is abandoned does not mean it’s legal for you to go in there giving the air soft community a bad name when you undoubtedly get caught.

Speak to the landowner, get permission, make the site safe, get insurance, get first aid and then when you’re totally out of money from the above, charge a minimal amount so others can have fun. <<That’s why no one else has done it.

I too am from Derby and know it extremely well but I cannot think of any properties like what you’ve described that would be suitable or ready for air soft.

 

[Rogerborg]

On a pure point of order, OP is correct (but for the wrong reasons) that it's pretty hard to escalate trespass to a criminal level, at least initially.  It's far more likely to be a civil tort, for which damage or loss needs to be shown.

However, I really don't want to be at a venue where the police are likely to get called out to a "firearms" incident.  Bear in mind that the UKARA defence (and also the reenactment defence for purchasing prohibited weapons like curved swords) requires the venue to have liability insurance.  I'd expect that test to be persuasive to any court considering the lawful authority / reasonable excuse defence of the Firearms Act section 19 offence of simple possession of an IF.

tl;dr version - gonnae no dae that.

 

[Skara]

No.

Don't do it.

Apart from the obvious legal issues everyone is well aware of, playing in abandoned places (or without a legit organization taking care of marshalling, setting rules and this kind of stuff) only attracts assholes.

I made a thread not long ago about a local fort in my town. It's abandoned and it's quite not legal to play there. 90% of the people playing there are hardcore cheaters, I've been playing airsoft for north of 10 years and every single time I played in there I have never hit anyone inside the dark tunnels. Wanna know why?

Because there are no rules, no club owns the field, everyone and their dog goes there to sling plastic at each other, sometimes lacking the most basic safety (and common sense) rules like keeping eyepro on at all times.

I'm speaking from direct experience of people removing their eyepro as soon as they got hit while others were still firing at them. People getting literally blapped in the face with 40mm shower shells from point blank a la KM and not calling it.

You'll end up with people having really hot guns, not following whatever rule you may set because "I didn't pay so I don't have to follow any rule"..

Just don't. Please. It's literally asking for troubles.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

owch, never realised that fort went so badly @Skara, shame as that place looked like it had serious potential.

 

[Musica]

with people having really hot guns, not following whatever rule you may set because "I didn't pay so I don't have to follow any rule".

While I agree wit everything you say I've also seen people use the argument that they have paid to play airsoft so they aren't going to waste their "time" walking back to spawn etc because they paid to play not bleed out. 

Cunts will be cunts.

 

[Skara]

owch, never realised that fort went so badly @Skara, shame as that place looked like it had serious potential.

It does have potential, although it's quite small (110mx50ish), what I've realized is that who owns that place basically owns the whole airsoft scene in my town as you'll force people to join clubs in order to play there (good thing as they'll have a proper insurance).

I'm working on reaching the council atm, I know quite a few people in there (and that is one of the good things about being a surveyor in this shit 5th world country).

While I agree wit everything you say I've also seen people use the argument that they have paid to play airsoft so they aren't going to waste their "time" walking back to spawn etc because they paid to play not bleed out. 

  

Cunts will be cunts.

100% agree. cunts will be cunts. We have massive cunts within our own club too. They do make good moving targets though

 

[Tackle]

While I agree wit everything you say I've also seen people use the argument that they have paid to play airsoft so they aren't going to waste their "time" walking back to spawn etc because they paid to play not bleed out. 

Cunts will be cunts.

My old site had a few that had that attitude, one in particular was quite vocal about it, which was made worse by the fact that the site was relatively small, so not a long walk.

easily remedied though, he got a very public lifetime ban for repeatedly cheating, & everybody else toed the line ?

 

[Adolf Hamster]

While I agree wit everything you say I've also seen people use the argument that they have paid to play airsoft so they aren't going to waste their "time" walking back to spawn etc because they paid to play not bleed out. 

these same people can be found mag-dumping their arp's screaming "you gonna call that you #@!& " while the casual observer notes their nuprol .2's are dropping about 5m short of the target.

taking hits and going back to respawn is part of airsoft, if you want to run around and shoot stuff without that part then i'd suggest ipsc would be a better hobby choice.