Tm devgru; worth it at the price?

[Bloodwing]

Sorry if this has been asked a million and one times all but needing a little bit of advice. Also sorry if its in the wrong section mods, if it needs to be moved I apologise 

I've been out the airsofting game for years: last gun I bought was a g&g scar which has barely a scratch on her, but having gotten bitten by the bug again and with the ukara cleared I can buy shiney new rif's lol.

I was going to get a gbb (even posted on the forum years ago with some thoughts), but having used mid caps since I've been playing again I know I would need to carry 12 mags at 35 rounds and the better half would kill me with THAT cost.

So I'm tempted by the TM Devgru aeg as I like the bolt stop function like a gbb and it won't break the bank buying mags and gas lol.

I remember the old days of TM's (had a plastic bodied M4 literally decades ago) being great range wise, good reliability but fps being meh at best. I also remember being told by more than a few folk to never open up a TM as the magical fairies that live in them disappear.

Bar a lipo conversion for better batteries I have zeros plans to upgrade it, so does the same stuff still hold true? It's a woodland site I usually play at but it's pretty dense so maximum engagement range tends to be 60 meters tops. Only asking as the current price is a lot to be spending especially in todays world but I can't seem to find anything that would tick all the boxes that I'm looking for.

Thanks in advance for any info folks

 

[Nick G]

I carry 5 mags and a speed loader for my GBBR L119 . A gas fill will give me 2 plus loads of BBs, I just reload the mags when things are quiet 

 

[Speedbird_666]

I remember the old days of TM's (had a plastic bodied M4 literally decades ago) being great range wise, good reliability but fps being meh at best. I also remember being told by more than a few folk to never open up a TM as the magical fairies that live in them disappear.

Well, things haven't really changed - expect sub-300fps out of the box and meh ROF, but you get the recoil and bolt stop. You do get metal bodies (with the exception of guns like the G36) on the NGRS line.

The TM fans will be along shortly, but essentially some will tell you that it'll be the best gun ever - once you pay a gun tech a fuck-tonne of cash so they can gut the pretty much the entire gearbox and replace with aftermarket parts. Allegedly these techs have secret stocks of the patented 'TM Fairy Dust' that they pour into the newly 'upgraded' gearboxes to make them even more amazeballs.

You'll also be told by others fans that the low stock FPS is not an issue - you just have to be more patient as the BB slowly ambles over to your target. I mean, the person you will be shooting at will be so impressed by the TM shooting at them, they'll stand completely still and wait for you. Perk of TM NGRS ownership apparently.

Recoil and bolt stop is cool though.

 

[Bloodwing]

Well, things haven't really changed - expect sub-300fps out of the box and meh ROF, but you get the recoil and bolt stop. You do get metal bodies (with the exception of guns like the G36) on the NGRS line.

The TM fans will be along shortly, but essentially some will tell you that it'll be the best gun ever - once you pay a gun tech a fuck-tonne of cash so they can gut the pretty much the entire gearbox and replace with aftermarket parts. Allegedly these techs have secret stocks of the patented 'TM Fairy Dust' that they pour into the newly 'upgraded' gearboxes to make them even more amazeballs.

You'll also be told by others fans that the low stock FPS is not an issue - you just have to be more patient as the BB slowly ambles over to your target. I mean, the person you will be shooting at will be so impressed by the TM shooting at them, they'll stand completely still and wait for you. Perk of TM NGRS ownership apparently.

Recoil and bolt stop is cool though.

Lol speedbird, why do I get a horrible feeling I've just opened a can of worms on this.

The reliability factor is another thing, my old TM M4 had 1000s of rounds through it and I sold it on to someone who from what I mind had years more service out it.

As for rate of fire, I'm used to using 8.4V Ni-Mh and Ni-Cd batteries so I'm used to things that go slowly lol

I carry 5 mags and a speed loader for my GBBR L119 . A gas fill will give me 2 plus loads of BBs, I just reload the mags when things are quiet 

I hear what you are saying Nick, but I probably would still burn through gas faster than my credit card could keep up with rofl

But maybe some day I'll get a gbb.

Out of curiosity is it and a1 or a2 L119?

 

[Nick G]

Lol speedbird, why do I get a horrible feeling I've just opened a can of worms on this.

The reliability factor is another thing, my old TM M4 had 1000s of rounds through it and I sold it on to someone who from what I mind had years more service out it.

As for rate of fire, I'm used to using 8.4V Ni-Mh and Ni-Cd batteries so I'm used to things that go slowly lol

I hear what you are saying Nick, but I probably would still burn through gas faster than my credit card could keep up with rofl

But maybe some day I'll get a gbb.

Out of curiosity is it and a1 or a2 L119?

It's an A1 , although I'm building a long A2 to run as a DMR at the moment.

View attachment 86977Mine is the top one, bottom one is an ongoing build for a mate which will go for machining and engraving when my A2 goes off.View attachment 86978

 

[Bloodwing]

It's an A1 , although I'm building a long A2 to run as a DMR at the moment.

View attachment 86977Mine is the top one, bottom one is an ongoing build for a mate which will go for machining and engraving when my A2 goes off.View attachment 86978

Now those are some beautiful guns. Thank you for the pictures Nick ?

 

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

The reliability factor is another thing, my old TM M4 had 1000s of rounds through it and I sold it on to someone who from what I mind had years more service out it.

TM are extremely nice, but a lot of budget stuff is very reliable (if not buggered about with) these days.

 

[Emergencychimps]

Newer "budget" Airsoft guns have come on leaps and bounds supposedly. You can get yourself a good rif thats reliable, good range, few bells and whistles (MOSFETs/electric triggers) etc for around £300.

Good enough that the TM magic isn't ready a thing.

What very few guns give are the following. 

Bolt stop

Recoil 

An easy gearbox to work on when it needs it. Unlike most gearboxes they aren't under tension when putting back together so I find them easier. 

I've had both of my recoils for over 7 years. During that time they have had repairs and spring upgrades, but not the excessiveness some do (stock motors, gears, pistons, cylinder,cylinder head, nozzle, barrel) The gate titans are a great upgrade. Obviously these repairs come at a cost but I'm not doing £300 every 2 years on a new rif like it seems most players with standard aegs do. 

Looked after they're solid and can last a long time

If you like changing your rif fairly often or acquiring an armoury as some do, then go for a standard aeg. If you're set on a 416 and expect to like it for a long time then the recoil is a sound investment. For me the bolt stop, reliability, overall quality etc is enough id buy them again.

TM mws gbbrs look very interesting, had a ghk and loved it, but I had a brief falling out of love with the sport and couldnt justify keeping it (kept the recoils though). Have picked up a tm mp7 for that gas action and a lower investment point. You do adapt to the lower round count surprisingly well and few contacts need 1000s of bbs, few need more than 30. 

Stock recoils are good solid guns, not super amazing but the recoil and bolt stop will make up for that. Eventually a stronger spring (m95 with a tighbore barrel or m100) for that extra FPS, if trigger response is important then the titan is the answer, but they aren't essential or needed at purchase. 

So I guess my answer is, it depends. 

 

[Bloodwing]

Newer "budget" Airsoft guns have come on leaps and bounds supposedly. You can get yourself a good rif thats reliable, good range, few bells and whistles (MOSFETs/electric triggers) etc for around £300.

Good enough that the TM magic isn't ready a thing.

What very few guns give are the following. 

Bolt stop

Recoil 

An easy gearbox to work on when it needs it. Unlike most gearboxes they aren't under tension when putting back together so I find them easier. 

I've had both of my recoils for over 7 years. During that time they have had repairs and spring upgrades, but not the excessiveness some do (stock motors, gears, pistons, cylinder,cylinder head, nozzle, barrel) The gate titans are a great upgrade. Obviously these repairs come at a cost but I'm not doing £300 every 2 years on a new rif like it seems most players with standard aegs do. 

Looked after they're solid and can last a long time

If you like changing your rif fairly often or acquiring an armoury as some do, then go for a standard aeg. If you're set on a 416 and expect to like it for a long time then the recoil is a sound investment. For me the bolt stop, reliability, overall quality etc is enough id buy them again.

TM mws gbbrs look very interesting, had a ghk and loved it, but I had a brief falling out of love with the sport and couldnt justify keeping it (kept the recoils though). Have picked up a tm mp7 for that gas action and a lower investment point. You do adapt to the lower round count surprisingly well and few contacts need 1000s of bbs, few need more than 30. 

Stock recoils are good solid guns, not super amazing but the recoil and bolt stop will make up for that. Eventually a stronger spring (m95 with a tighbore barrel or m100) for that extra FPS, if trigger response is important then the titan is the answer, but they aren't essential or needed at purchase. 

So I guess my answer is, it depends. 

Cheers Emergency, all good info thats helped me there.

I tend to stick with a gun or sell it for a much reduced price to someone who needs a starter, or I did in pre ukara days lol. 

Trigger response does not bother me really either, it honestly is the slightly more realistic feeling of the bolt stop etc that I'm drawn too.

It's really just breaking the "hey honey, it 700 quid+ for this."

If they had bolt stop I'd look at the vfc hk416a5, but I've heard it can be a mixed bag on a good or a bad one.

Looks like a devgru it is...

 

[Speedbird_666]

Looks like a devgru it is...

Hey, if it makes your bollocks tingle and you can square it with the missus, then go for it…?
 

A well looked after TM NGRS will hold value fairly well too, should you wish to part company with it at a later date.

 

[Bloodwing]

you can square it with the missus, then go for it…?
 

That's the bit I'm worried about. If you read in the paper about a guy in Scotland being beaten up by his misses over a replica firearm...it's probably me lol

 

[C-Diddy]

I have a TM Devgru and have to say I'm really happy with it. Had it almost two years and out of the box it was absolutely fine. After swearing I'd leave it alone however, I've recently done exactly as @Speedbird_666 mentioned and tinkered; barrel, gears and spring all replaced. Left the hop alone though so the TM fairy dust is still all there! 

Yes, it's now shooting exceptionally well, with BBs having more of a sense of urgency getting to targets at decent range, but is it worth the £700+ I've paid to get it to this state? I don't know really. I love it, but don't deny that you could easily get a £250 gun shooting as well if not better for a lot less.

The recoil function is ok, but nowhere near the recoil you get from an MWS, obviously. The bolt stop function, although preventing the "am I still firing or is it empty?" question, is a little underwhelming if I'm honest.

That all being said, I'm completely satisfied with it now, and the only thing I'll be spending on it now is replacing perishables when they go, and a service now and again. 

View attachment 84304

View attachment 84303

 

[Bloodwing]

Cheers for the advice all. Really want the TM but as you have all said cheaper guns can do all it does and more regarding performance. 

Dream scenario for me would be g&g making a tr 16, cause they do support a "stop firing feature", that looks like a 416 (and has mags in stock in the UK, those look like rare as hens teeth), as my scar though rarely used has been faultless.

Will need to discuss with my better half as this may be coming out the wedding fund ?

 

[concretesnail]

It's possible g&g do make a 416 style rif and the tr16 gearbox which stops on empty can be purchased as a standalone unit and dropped in.

The 308 series and the 556 varient all use a standard v2 box pattern with the addition of the the on empty if youbuse the appropriate magazines

 

[Bloodwing]

It's possible g&g do make a 416 style rif and the tr16 gearbox which stops on empty can be purchased as a standalone unit and dropped in.

The 308 series and the 556 varient all use a standard v2 box pattern with the addition of the the on empty if youbuse the appropriate magazines

Nail, sorry but I'm a bit confused if you get the right g&g mags (I'm assuming it's the one with the "bending follower") then do any of there v2 boxes function with the stop firing? Or does it need to be therr16 specific one?

 

[Speedbird_666]

as my scar though rarely used has been faultless.

G&G SCARs are decent guns. I would pump some cash into upgrading that in the first instance (something like a Perun ETU would be a good start). I know it doesn't do the cool stuff you are after, but it'll send BB's downrange as efficiently as any other AEG.

 

[Emergencychimps]

The way I see this, is are you going to be using the same rif in 2-3 years time? If so then a tm devgru is a good option. If it's likely you'll have stopped again or using a different RIF as your main, get a cheaper one or do something sexy with the scar to make you fall in love with it again (nice optics, foregrip, torch etc) 

The bolt stop and the recoil are nice add ons that very few aegs do (kwa ergs and bolt, gbls das #megamoney), neither are as good as a gbbr but you have more ammo capacity, less gas concerns, less weather concerns. I personally find them satisfying enough that over a longer period of time I can justify the money. The range will be similar if not the same. 

Personally, i get the impression that standard aegs degrade more over time, a good aeg lasts (with it's optimal performance) say 1-3 years but a recoil lasts 3-4 years This is probably some fiction I have created in my brain to justify the money. 

 

[Bloodwing]

I'll probably not stop this time as airsoft is my go to for stress relief. Basically this gun is going to be the main rif,  with my scar the back up, until it starts to say no more and then I'm going to replace it/fix it.

Speedbird I did think about upgrading my scar, but liked the devgru since I clapped eyes on it many years ago. I'm just glad vfc don't do bolt stop on there models, else I'd really be pulling my hair out with this lol. As a side note if this was going to be a wall hanger most of the year I'd buy one of their A5 models and pony up the cash as they look lovely.

Emergency I hear what your saying, I liken what you've said to all products from when I was kid: old rule was by cheap and it will break/not work so well as one you spend more on.

Next game I'll be at is not till middle of April now due to work, so have a few weeks to mull it over.

Thank you again all for the advice and sorry if I'm being a twat asking all these questions.