THE TM MWS thread

[AlphaBear]

The MPA 'valve' was sacked due to coming loose despite threadlock etc and I read on here at the time Ra tech was the way to go and it has been great and fits well in the ag nozzle which was swapped from the original after minor damage when the nozzle return spring finally snapped (5000 RDS I reckon).

As for the lower readings on the spread sheet that is because 1. I was shooting 0.30's and 2. I was playing some very close cqb trying out a possible new site and I wanted lower joules.

Skip to the 25th October I've wound it open again for field play and winter. Blue is propane, yellow is a test of Mapp gas (rothenberger).

(Edit - the diff' is the difference between max and min FPS over 10 shots fired)

As for the consistency initially I thought it was due to magazine age and type, mags 1,2 and 3 I believe are the older type 1 magazines 4,5 and 6 type 2's, all are shot in the same conditions at the same time on propane filled to the top (liquid gas spurting) with the same batch of bb's. all are green gas modified (cut 10mm past the valve) and I believe the greater variance is easily made up for with the larger capacity of gas which doesn't appear to affect accuracy at all giving me approximately 50mm groups. The mags are weighed prior to bb's to ensure their full, I believe if they were less full i,d get better consistency.

What would be cool if anyone interested next time they do a test they add their results to the XL sheet for comparison which could be a good benchmark for certain setups?

Cheers

P.s. I've changed the link to allow anyone to comment or edit - go wild folks, suggest copying file tabs for your own results, test conditions at the bottom.

P.P.S same rules as this forum exist - be nice people - constructive comments only please. Admins hope you ok with this? If not will upload bare one for copying?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lfmKJtQm-qGtE-EJLlXXixfkon5uT6nDdt7BJOOOb1o/edit?usp=drivesdk

I like your scientific method of testing and recording the results... it's quite an eye opener and will for sure lend to much debate going forward... well it should

In terms of BB's which brand are you using? I assume there is no variation in the brand yeah?

Regarding the AG MPA nozzle, yeah that valve does look a tad suspect (blue loctite or not)... it definitely needs replacing as you said you used a RA tech valve. 

I've yet to do the green gas mod on any of my V2 mags... I believe the metal tubes inside are now glued on so have to be cut down... (thanks Marui)!

cheers

 

[PRIMEAirsoftTech]

Sorry to interrupt the current line of conversation guys, just thought I'd give you guys a heads up.

Eagle6 have MWS mags in stock right now. I picked up four for my new MWS along with a nozzle spring set as a backup since I'm running green gas.

There must be a bug on the site because UK domestic delivery was going to cost me £55, so I ticked the box to ask for a separate delivery quote and they charged me £11 instead. Very reasonable of them to do that!

Lastly, this is my first GBBR and I love it, but has anybody got any tips for getting rid of the "mush" on the trigger before the break? Should I clean out my trigger unit? Its an expensive gun so I don't want to buy aftermarket parts for a long time.

Thanks guys.

 

[AlphaBear]

Vortex Strike Eagle added. Damn this optic is good. I mean real good. Plonked it on top of a Vortex 2” offset cantilever mount. Quality kit. Period. 
 

Now I can see what I’m shooting at. Whether I hit anything is another matter ?

View attachment 64368

View attachment 64369

 

[Wild Weasel]

I like your scientific method of testing and recording the results... it's quite an eye opener and will for sure lend to much debate going forward... well it should

In terms of BB's which brand are you using? I assume there is no variation in the brand yeah?

Regarding the AG MPA nozzle, yeah that valve does look a tad suspect (blue loctite or not)... it definitely needs replacing as you said you used a RA tech valve. 

I've yet to do the green gas mod on any of my V2 mags... I believe the metal tubes inside are now glued on so have to be cut down... (thanks Marui)!

cheers

I use either BLS from camoraids or Geoffs' 0.30g from outdoor and tactical  as it the best compromise on a 350fps rifle between speed and terminal velocity/stability at distance (at least in my mind), I've been getting the most consistent results with the latter. I don't do a lot of testing with the bb's, I measure a few with a caliper and weigh ten on a scale to check manufacturing tolerances and that's it really.

With regards to green gas modifying magazines the silver syphon pipe is easily replaced if you decide to go back to original spec but I've only had a positive experience with the mod, I suppose you could modify one and compare it to another weighing before and after to compare how much gas you can cram in there? I removed the tube, removed the valve, stuffed it with tissue to prevent fragments from getting on threads and cut it down on a bench hook with a stop line and a kerf already cut in the hook fence to ensure a consistent cut over the batch.

 

[AlphaBear]

I use either BLS from camoraids or Geoffs' 0.30g from outdoor and tactical  as it the best compromise on a 350fps rifle between speed and terminal velocity/stability at distance (at least in my mind), I've been getting the most consistent results with the latter. I don't do a lot of testing with the bb's, I measure a few with a caliper and weigh ten on a scale to check manufacturing tolerances and that's it really.

With regards to green gas modifying magazines the silver syphon pipe is easily replaced if you decide to go back to original spec but I've only had a positive experience with the mod, I suppose you could modify one and compare it to another weighing before and after to compare how much gas you can cram in there? I removed the tube, removed the valve, stuffed it with tissue to prevent fragments from getting on threads and cut it down on a bench hook with a stop line and a kerf already cut in the hook fence to ensure a consistent cut over the batch.

That’s a good point about cutting the syphon tube cleanly and of course removing the valve to prevent any debris contamination. 
 

Regarding the bbs, I was under the impression that BLS, Geoff’s and Longbow share the same OEM. I’m not sure what the difference in Geoff’s precision  vs super precision is though. 
 

 

[Marroksteel]

It doesn’t look good. Is this a crack?

View attachment 64339

Just a piece of dust/fiber of some kind its all CNC'D then stone washed from the looks of it.

Sorry to interrupt the current line of conversation guys, just thought I'd give you guys a heads up.

Eagle6 have MWS mags in stock right now. I picked up four for my new MWS along with a nozzle spring set as a backup since I'm running green gas.

There must be a bug on the site because UK domestic delivery was going to cost me £55, so I ticked the box to ask for a separate delivery quote and they charged me £11 instead. Very reasonable of them to do that!

Lastly, this is my first GBBR and I love it, but has anybody got any tips for getting rid of the "mush" on the trigger before the break? Should I clean out my trigger unit? Its an expensive gun so I don't want to buy aftermarket parts for a long time.

Thanks guys.

"Mushy" trigger ? I don't know how AEG guys expect a mechanical trigger system to respond more crisp than contact switches and electricity personally the trigger responses is quiet good its not going to be anything like the G&P, Guns Modify, Wii Tech aftermarket parts. If you want to talk about mushy trigger the Military Issue M4A1 is another story so its not going to be like a Geissele unit. 

That’s a good point about cutting the syphon tube cleanly and of course removing the valve to prevent any debris contamination. 
 

Regarding the bbs, I was under the impression that BLS, Geoff’s and Longbow share the same OEM. I’m not sure what the difference in Geoff’s precision  vs super precision is though. 
 

I'd be willing to bet it's related to the polishing and shorting process.

 

[jsmithski]

Sorry to interrupt the current line of conversation guys, just thought I'd give you guys a heads up.

Eagle6 have MWS mags in stock right now. I picked up four for my new MWS along with a nozzle spring set as a backup since I'm running green gas.

There must be a bug on the site because UK domestic delivery was going to cost me £55, so I ticked the box to ask for a separate delivery quote and they charged me £11 instead. Very reasonable of them to do that!

Lastly, this is my first GBBR and I love it, but has anybody got any tips for getting rid of the "mush" on the trigger before the break? Should I clean out my trigger unit? Its an expensive gun so I don't want to buy aftermarket parts for a long time.

Thanks guys.

disassemble the trigger box and lube all contact surfaces, it helps a bit. The most drag is on the small part here, I think it needs shimming as it scratches the unit body.

View attachment 64372

 

[Wild Weasel]

That’s a good point about cutting the syphon tube cleanly and of course removing the valve to prevent any debris contamination. 
 

Regarding the bbs, I was under the impression that BLS, Geoff’s and Longbow share the same OEM. I’m not sure what the difference in Geoff’s precision  vs super precision is though. 
 

From what I've read BLS is the OEM for a lot of bb's, I'm not sure who makes Geoff's all I can tell you is that I'm getting a decent grouping at 20m when clamped into a stand  and noticeable accuracy at 40 - 60m.

 

[PRIMEAirsoftTech]

"Mushy" trigger ? I don't know how AEG guys expect a mechanical trigger system to respond more crisp than contact switches and electricity personally the trigger responses is quiet good its not going to be anything like the G&P, Guns Modify, Wii Tech aftermarket parts. If you want to talk about mushy trigger the Military Issue M4A1 is another story so its not going to be like a Geissele unit.

I'm perfectly happy with the trigger response, and I love the mechanical trigger having some mixed experience with real firearms. Its something I was really missing from AEGs.

There's just a little bit of a "mush" before the wall that goes away if you pull the trigger to the wall and release it without firing, and I was just wondering if there was a well-known way to smooth this out as it is a common complaint that people have when comparing the MWS trigger to say a GHK or VFC trigger.

That said, I'd take the MWS over the other options any day.

My question is more from a point of curiosity because I'm interested in learning more about GBBRs in general. Don't think I'll buy an AEG ever again, I love my MWS too much.

Apologies if my question seemed overly critical or unreasonable.

jsmithsky, thanks for the photo! I'll look into it.

 

[Marroksteel]

I haven’t unscrewed anything to see what the insides are like. To be honest I got it on a whim whilst waiting for my replacement marui nozzle to arrive. Now I’m thinking, I may as well get the G&P npas valve and shove it into this bolt so that I can swap to using higher power when needed. I’m on a standard length (CQB) barrel so either i get the 3.5 version of the npas or I just get a 4.5 and adjust the power accordingly and hope that version works with the CQB. Dunno yet. Any thoughts? 
 

Now going back to the screw part it’s holding the hammer part of the bolt or whatever it’s called. Unlike the marui which has that bit forged as part of the bolt the G&P has it as a separate bit. See the pins below and you’ll see what I mean. 
 

View attachment 64064

View attachment 64065

G&P  make two(2) different versions of this the long shown here is for barrels under 300mm the shorter for barrels longer than 300mm.

And as you can see here adjustments are possible and is a user replaceable part.

View attachment 64420

View attachment 64421

 

[Wild Weasel]

G&P  make two(2) different versions of this the long shown here is for barrels under 300mm the shorter for barrels longer than 300mm.

And as you can see here adjustments are possible and is a user replaceable part.

View attachment 64420

View attachment 64421

Won't the nozzle return spring twist up if you rotate the thread or does the circlip just retain the back of the return spring and allow the hammer ramp to just pull through?

If so how does it work?

 

[AlphaBear]

This is mine out there box so to speak. The circlip isn’t flush with the bolt carrier 

View attachment 64425

 

[jsmithski]

Something is wrong with that design. How come the oring seals against the bolt if it’s not screwed all the way out? And what about the return spring rotation?

 

[AlphaBear]

I’ve no idea. I haven’t even thought to deeply about the G&P design of the bolt. In fact I’ve not even installed it as of yet. 

 

[jsmithski]

I doubt this has anything to do with adjustment. You can’t twist the spring, also it would not do anything honestly. I just don’t see what the c clip is for if the whole thing screws in/out.

 

[Wild Weasel]

This is mine out there box so to speak. The circlip isn’t flush with the bolt carrier 

View attachment 64425

Thanks mate, definitely some interest in this bolt, would love to see it taken apart - it's the thread that is of interest as the original is literally held in with a plastic clip held itself in place by the mock gas key assembly. And like jsmitkski just  said the bolt head is prevented from rotation by the gas key so if you rotate this thread you are twisting the nozzle return spring internally.

 

[Marroksteel]

Probably not something you screw in/out with the spring under load.  and its a different design nothing is wrong with it if you just can't understand it otherwise we'd all be without cars or modern technology. I'd say do your own digging for information like asking G&P and then make a decision on it.

 

[Wild Weasel]

Probably not something you screw in/out with the spring under load.  and its a different design nothing is wrong with it if you just can't understand it otherwise we'd all be without cars or modern technology. I'd say do your own digging for information like asking G&P and then make a decision on it.

Totally, I would have bought a complete g & p bolt and adjustable nozzle if I could have afforded it as they look smart, unfortunately I didn't have the cash so I decided to have a go at one of the new Hao geissele numbers.

As for information about it I thought asking the guy who'd just shared it on this very forum a prudent move as he had one to hand. I was simply interested as to how you get the nozzle in and out if the spring has to rotate to engage the back of the bcg, I guess you wind it in then lock the nozzle in place with the plastic gas key and there circlip is a fail safe?

 

[jsmithski]

Probably not something you screw in/out with the spring under load.  and its a different design nothing is wrong with it if you just can't understand it otherwise we'd all be without cars or modern technology. I'd say do your own digging for information like asking G&P and then make a decision on it.

“Probably” isn’t a good argument don’t you think?

 

[ajumma]

I got my complete G&P bolt today 1 hour before leaving for my CQB game and so was able to test it. As @AlphaBear mentioned before, the machining is of very high quality. The screw with the C-clip also sits around 1mm away from the bolt instead of flush, so I reckon this is some kind of design decision. 

Initial thoughts are that it is indeed completely drop-in unlike the Angrygun bolt was for me (dodgy sealing buffer meant shitty firing rate and sticky nozzle). I got a 0.30J increase in power which was unexpected and not entirely welcome since I originally intended to use this bolt for my CQB arena and install the G&P adjustable valve in my stock bolt to use outdoors as a DMR, but it seems like I'll have to figure something else out. I only tested with 0.25g bb's, but I was consistently getting between 98 and 101 m/s, so around 1.28 and 1.32 joules. It was very consistent , I would get 101-102 m/s with a fully filled mag with green gas, and after 10-15 shots, it would settle to around 98-99m/s. Also, I noticed a distinct change in how the gun sounds when firing. I'm pretty sure this bolt is louder the stock MTR bolt, and it has a distinct metallic sound when firing which is really satisfying which the Angrygun bolt definitely didn't have. I wonder if this is due to the roller bolt design? 

Overall, I'm pretty happy with how it turned out! I'm glad that it worked OOTB and didn't require any fitting or anything. Also interesting to note, the G&P bolt didn't engage my hop up dial like the Angrygun one did (the AG bolt would literally decrease my hop from 60% to 0% in a magazine or two), so I'm staying well away from AG internals for the MWS to be honest.