The Third Way: No Coke Cans or Chronographs?

[Klayer04]

Hi All!

Tried a variety of searches on this forum but couldnt find anything on this. Many may already know of it, some may not, but the aim of this topic is to show the people who dont, gauge its usefullness, and find your opinions.

I have used the Brian Badonde(bold) method to reference/link key words and phrases the majority of you will not grasp.

The recent changes into airsoft lethality (Bing) along with many skirmish sites restriction of FPS on airsoft weapons in order to play, proves the importance of FPS measurement and control.

Maybe you have recently modded your weapon, downgraded the spring or even purchased a new gun(bwah) . You will most likely be wanting to see what your potentially illegal friend(booh) is kicking out.

However what if:

-You are a student and chronograph money is beer money

-You leant your chronograph to your student mate, who broke it or sold it for beer money

-You used to own a chronograph until you took an arrow in the knee(bahhh)

-Or any other likely scenario occurs

THEN YOU ARE LEFT WITH ONE OPTION!

Poor mans chrono

Basically, shooting a coke can 1-2 inches away without holding it gives you a ROUGH idea of its FPS (For a detailed instruction how to PROPERLY carry this out look here (Bwanggg))

Yes its Cheap, Dirty and some debate its accuracy or as others have described it: 'Easy, sleazy and making me queazy' - Raptor Jesus in Psalms 14.

Fear not my brothers for there is a Third way!

A way which uses a microphone(Found on most laptops and mobile phones these days) and

Audacity (An excelent free recording/editing program (available here (Bitty bwah bwah)) to record the time it takes from your muzzle report to impact.

Using the time it takes to travel a certain distance, maths can be used to calculate the speed the round is going thus a basic, inacurate FPS can be established.

For a full instruction please visit this link (Bi Bouldnt Bont to Belapse!)

Pros and Cons i can see

Pro:

Completely Free

Greater range/scope for different velocities (Ie not restricted to the several specific FPS's as with the Poor mans Chrono)

You feel like a scientist

Cons:

More effort/less fun than 'gatting' a can point blank

Still innacurate as the fps is not from the muzzle (instead over 5 or so foot of flight- how much this would differ needs to be established)

SO! Please comment with your opinions, criticisms or even experience with this method. If anyone with a chrono who would be nice enough to compare findings between this method and the real deal then that would be most helpful in either establishing the truth and worthiness of this method, or alternatively condemning it to the AIRSOFT FAILS topic :-D

Also please add your suggestions for a standardized name for this method. First person to compare findings with a real chronograph can pick the winner :-D

 

[M_P]

Slightly richer man's chrono?

 

[Airsoft-Ed]

Is there a kind of material the average Joe could get hold of to shoot into, then use the penetrative depth as a chrono reading of sorts?

Like ballistic gel for example?

I think this sound report idea sounds like a good one but I cba to try it out, I doubt my laptop has accurate enough sound recording equipment for it to be of any use. Plus I'm sure the maths bit will be more complicated than I can be bothered to work out lol.

 

[TPI]

im terrible at english and i passed higher english but nearly failed standard math`s so i think we all know where this is going if i have to do it...

 

[Airsoft-Ed]

I got a C at GCSE maths and haven't had a thing to do with it since, apart from working out how much money I can spend on airsofting lol.

 

[bigshep]

Go pay £40 for a chrono, or just make sure your bang stick is within site limits easily rather than 1fps below.

 

[Klayer04]

£40 isnt too expensive, but i think this is aimed at skint or new players to the sport, and once again if your chrono breaks etc it could be a while before you recieve a new one.

the maths bit is as follows if you havent looked at the link(a far better instruction and arguement for its use)

DISTANCE DIVIDED BY TIME

You are standing 5 foot away.

The sound file shows it takes 0.05755 seconds THUS

5(feet) divided by 0.05755(seconds) = 86.88 (Feet Per Second)

I will be carrying this out today hopefully, aswell as poor mans, and will report back with how i found it. Once again if someone with a chrono fancies playing mythbuster it would be helpful to anyone considiring this.

 

[Airsoft-Ed]

Can you seriously get a chrono for £40? I've never seen any for less than £100.

 

[TPI]

I have... http://www.fire-support.co.uk/product/xcor...200-chronograph

 

[Airsoft-Ed]

Seriously? <_<

I meant like, a fair way below £100, the postage would knock that over the mark.

There's also the debates about which ones are actually worth their salt, people say some of them are crap and don't work and I've heard of chronos needing to be configured as well? What's all that about?

 

[Klayer04]

Seriously? <_<
There's also the debates about which ones are actually worth their salt, people say some of them are crap and don't work and I've heard of chronos needing to be configured as well? What's all that about?

Ive heard that too. For a cheapsofter like me chronoing can be an obstacle. Me and a few friends put together for a decent smart charger to discharge all the batteries after a skirmish, and other than the poor mans chrono or method described in this post, the only other option i can see is getting your mates to chip in?

also if chronos have to be configured, how did we ever calibrate fps? chicken and egg style question there :lol:

 

[Mike-f]

Ive heard that too. For a cheapsofter like me chronoing can be an obstacle. Me and a few friends put together for a decent smart charger to discharge all the batteries after a skirmish, and other than the poor mans chrono or method described in this post, the only other option i can see is getting your mates to chip in?
also if chronos have to be configured, how did we ever calibrate fps? chicken and egg style question there :lol:

http://www.chronoscopes.com/

These are at £40.80! very accurate (less than 1%) and also made in the UK

I have been using one to develop my new gun

 

[Deva]

Or just ask to use someone elses, or go to the site when you don't plan on playing or with a spare just in case. Wouldn't be surprised if shops have one available for you to use, certainly if you got the gun from there!

I'd of thought there is a lot of room for error in the recordings and trying to make out the impact sound from the overrun of the firing sound and what not. Supposedly 373fps was the limit for breaking the skin and causing bleeding I think, so you could try that too! :lol: (Please don't!)

I didn't read the link btw so my accuracy assumption is based upon figuring it out from what you said..

 

[Airsoft-Ed]

But I've ended up bleeding quite badly from guns I've been shot by before, that can't be what the 373 limit was for. Unless it was for that power at something like, 20/30m.

 

[Liam Porter]

I've been shot by a 330 fps gun and bled before.. admittedly, I shot myself in the finger at point blank range (finger over the barrel...)

 

[Airsoft-Ed]

http://www.chronoscopes.com/
These are at £40.80! very accurate (less than 1%) and also made in the UK

I have been using one to develop my new gun

I completely missed your comment last time I read the thread through, Mike. I think I might have to get myself one of those.

Does it matter that it's made for air rifles?

 

[RR01]

I completely missed your comment last time I read the thread through, Mike. I think I might have to get myself one of those.
Does it matter that it's made for air rifles?

Most chronos are ONLY concerned with the speed of the projectile. The airsoft specific ones can be calibrated to include different BB weights so that you can work out if the gun is firing over 1J. I've used one at my old gun club that was used for airsoft, airgun and real steel projectile speeds.

A chrono targeted at airgun shooters is still going to work fine for airsoft. With airguns, you have a much more specific power limit - rifles (not pistols) firing over 12ft/lbs are classed as firearms for which you need a FAC. Pistols over 6 ft/lbs are a definite no/no, as we're not allowed FAC rated pistols any more. This is why airgun shooters will check much more closely the speed of their guns, as speed and pellet weight will determine if you're going to be spending five years doing porridge or not if the coppers want to test your weapon power.

With the new ACPO limits it's probably not going to be too long before the cops will want to start checking our guns, so getting any chrono is going to be worthwhile so that you know your gun is legal. Wouldn't want to be the first one to test it in Court (despite working for a firm of lawyers)!!

I've been shot by a 330 fps gun and bled before.. admittedly, I shot myself in the finger at point blank range (finger over the barrel...)

I did that with an L96 firing at 450fps when I forgot there was a BB in the chamber whilst making some adjustments without the mag in!!

Bl**dy painful, but didn't actually break the skin; just had a large BB sized blood blister on the end of my finger.

 

[Klayer04]

http://www.chronoscopes.com/
These are at £40.80! very accurate (less than 1%) and also made in the UK

Looks good! and you can vouch for its accuracy/reliability?

 

[Rolo Rolo]

I tried the can test on my M4 and it would penetrate one side and dent or tear the other, but not exit the can.

When I had it chrono'd at The Grange it came out at around 295-300, which ties in nicely with the can test guide.

As the site has a limit of 350fps, being an idiot newbie I naturally wanted to take my gun up to the limit. The ICS M4 is supposed to have an M100 rated spring, so I put a Madbull M110 in hoping to take it up about 30fps.

It looks like Madbull springs are pretty strong, as I now have an M4 that will penetrate both sides of a can AND the centre of the bottom. Which I suspect takes me over the site limit. D'oh! :angry:

I'd be VERY surprised if the gun is actually now at the 420+ fps the original can-test suggests. I'm guessing the 380 mark or a little less is probably nearer the truth. The Airsoft Retreat can test says 385+, so until I get my gun chrono'd properly, I'll call it that. EDIT: I had it chrono'd with the M110 and it was 410, so the original can-test would seem to be pretty reliable. And it also seems to indicate that I have a particularly frisky M110 as I should be getting about 360fps by my reckoning. I'll be happy with the gun when it can send a 0.2 through the sides of a can, but not pierce it's bottom, as I'm guessing that's pretty much par for skirmish use.

I love the sound test idea, that's very clever!

 

[SheriffHD]

Want to make a chrono, Two coat hangers, copper wiring and nothing but GCSE level science and you can make one.

(I seemed to have learn alot from school considering i went to one of the UK's worst schools :S)