The law and airsoft

[Airsoft-Ed]

The age of criminal responsibility in England is 10 years old, unless they've upped it since I was told for my A-Levels a few years ago. I'm sure no parent would give their kids permission to use guns that they would have had to buy for them, in public. Especially if they're under 10 years old.

 

[Ditch]

What irks me is why they couldn't just make themselves know to yourself, being a nearby property owner. If they state thier intent then someone local may have a bit of land and let them use them in a controlled manner, ie a shooting range. Shooting them near a path, with possible dog walkers, ramblers, other children is idiotic.

By all means they are bang out of order, if they have to enter through your property I suggest you might put a sign saying that people have been spotted using airsoft firearms in the woods and the area is under surveliance. If I was a kid that would be enough to scare the be-jeebies out of me.

Again, thanks for coming in here open minded and not on a warpath.

 

[Darrenj]

The rifles in question, as has been mentioned are legally toys, BUT should NOT be given to kids to go and play with them in the woods.
Just because they are brightly coloured it does not mean that they are for kids or are any less dangerous:

If a lambourghini is bright Orange, it is a lambourghini.

If a lambourghini is black, it doesn't suddenly become a hearse. It is still a supercar, capable of doing supercar things.

Police and parents alike need to get their heads out of the sand and realise that just because the colour of something indiactes that it is for kids, it does not mean that it is!

I must applaud you, Darren, for realising that we are not all young kids and we do want to protect our chosen sport and hobby. And also thank you for not jumping on the 'guns r bad and people who like them are physcopaths' bandwaggon because you have had an issue with a few individuals.

I probably haven't added much here, but there is definately some good, solid advice in this thread.

Cheers

I have alot of respect for people in what they do when they do it properly as you all clearly do, I'm not such a stranger from this environment as I grew with Firearms around me, both of my parents had FAC's with guns to match, 45's, 38's, blackpowder, shotguns, .22 and air rifles, so I have the utmost respect for guns but, also I had a great childhood growing up. I only have an air rifle now for disposing of rodents and I am very fortunate to have my own land to shoot on.

I have to say that Airsoft in the correct environment looks like great fun.

Thank you all for your help so far.

 

[Darrenj]

Just an update for those who may be interested.

Following on from the saga and because of the police and there lack of interest in the law this situation is still on going.

I did contact UKARA and initially they did seem interested, but for some reason things just fizzled out with that line of enquiry.

We have since I wrote this still had continual abuse of these weapons be carried in public and used incorrectly.

We had another incident only yesterday, I called the police, and give them their due they did come out, they went and spoke to the kids and came back and reported to me only to reiterate to me that they were only toys and no crime had been committed. when I confronted the police officers with the laws which I printed off the internet from the Cleveland Police website they said no, the way its been worded is misleading and these ones are just toys, the other officer said after I pushed them on this ' anyway Devon and Cornwall Police don't recognize these BB laws' as you can imagine I was gob-founded, just then these two young lads walked past on the public footpath with both their weapons clearly visible, one was a AK 47 in Blue, I have to admit I did not recognize the other one.

unfortunately for the police when I was talking to them they were under one of my CCTV cameras which has a microphone, so I have the whole conversation recorded.

So now I have witnessed two under aged boys committing a crime with two police officers watching and they did nothing.

AHHHHHHH !

I really need your help and your comments

Thank you.

 

[TPI]

i regret saying this but screw it write to the sun or any BIG and local newspaper with all the info you have and let the home office know as county`s have to abide by law`s set out by the UK government (we are not in america thank you) and not forgetting SKy new`s and BBC New`s aswell post the Video on youtube and that will bring a true storm down on them

 

[Deva]

Contacting the papers isn't the way to go, you'd be putting an already fragile situation under the spotlight. As players we want the sport to continue. A better bet might be to get in touch with the parents of the kids. You're printed materials and a few mentions of armed response units and I'm sure they'll sort their kids out!

 

[Darrenj]

Contacting the papers isn't the way to go, you'd be putting an already fragile situation under the spotlight. As players we want the sport to continue. A better bet might be to get in touch with the parents of the kids. You're printed materials and a few mentions of armed response units and I'm sure they'll sort their kids out!

I agree, I dont think the papers are the correct way, but unfortunately its these parents who are sending the kids down and as the police are saying its not a crime they take no notice of what I say, to them its out of sight, out of mind, until one of them gets hurt then we all know what will happen!

Its the police in this case who are at fault but its knowing where to turn.

 

[TPI]

aah what`s that independant body that investigate`s the police get them on it.

 

[Darrenj]

aah what`s that independant body that investigate`s the police get them on it.

Yeah that is one way to go, but are they really independent?? or are they like ombudsman's and generally take the side of who's paying them !! God I sound cynical !!!

 

[TPI]

you ought to meet my uncle Sven (if you listen to a certain radio station he talk`s to the presentor about conspiracy stuff) and i do agree although in scotland we recently had a case where 2 cop`s are being charged for chasing an innocent Motorist down in a dangerous and alarming manner.

 

[Deva]

I believe this is what you're talking about Craig:

http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/en/Pages/default.aspx

You can lodge a complaint.

 

[TPI]

yea that`s the one Dev

 

[Tourist212]

I believe this is what you're talking about Craig:
http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/en/Pages/default.aspx

You can lodge a complaint.

That won't make any difference whatsoever to getting the problem resolved. They'll just investigate those officers (and probably take about a year to do so). You'd be much better off speaking to the Inspector who supervises the officers who attended your address or going to the local police station, in possession of the legislation you have printed off, asking to speak to the duty officer to make a complaint and then explaining the situation in full to him/her. The local inspector will speak to the officers concerned AND will get them to reattend and resolve the matter, the IPCC will not.

 

[Deva]

That may be the case, I'm not an expert in the area. I was just clarifying the comments made previously and said what actions were available through the IPCC

 

[Tourist212]

That may be the case, I'm not an expert in the area. I was just clarifying the comments made previously and said what actions were available through the IPCC

No worries. They do their very best to hide how slow and incompetent they are from the public. There are definitely more practical solutions, but most people wouldn't know what they are. That's the benefit of forums though, I guess.

Edit: In answer to someone above (DarrenJ, I think) th IPCC are most definitely independent. They justify their existence only by finding the police at fault, so if anything they've gone completely the other way from just towing the Govt line. They are VERY slow though (they regularly carry out their investigations over the course of 1-2 years before making a decision) and they make mistakes left, right and centre.

 

[Darrenj]

No worries. They do their very best to hide how slow and incompetent they are from the public. There are definitely more practical solutions, but most people wouldn't know what they are. That's the benefit of forums though, I guess.
Edit: In answer to someone above (DarrenJ, I think) th IPCC are most definitely independent. They justify their existence only by finding the police at fault, so if anything they've gone completely the other way from just towing the Govt line. They are VERY slow though (they regularly carry out their investigations over the course of 1-2 years before making a decision) and they make mistakes left, right and centre.

Thats very interesting, previously we have tried to get the inspector for the area and all we keep getting is a sgt who basically says the same thing as his officers, to quote' there just toys' 'no crime has been committed' etc etc, so its very hard to get anywhere. I suppose they hope by continually closing ranks and stating the same thing they hope you will go away, but they dont know us the more they wont do anything the more we will fight to get justice, I have to say they are very convincing and I do find myself doubting the laws !! thats stupid, right !!!

 

[Johnno]

If they were razzing around on mini Motos shooting at each other the Rozzers would soon be getting a grip of them LOL

 

[Tourist212]

Thats very interesting, previously we have tried to get the inspector for the area and all we keep getting is a sgt who basically says the same thing as his officers, to quote' there just toys' 'no crime has been committed' etc etc, so its very hard to get anywhere. I suppose they hope by continually closing ranks and stating the same thing they hope you will go away, but they dont know us the more they wont do anything the more we will fight to get justice, I have to say they are very convincing and I do find myself doubting the laws !! thats stupid, right !!!

Seems like the guys who attended the first time either didn't know what to do or didn't want to do the writing involved, and their Sgt is backing them up and hoping it goes away. Seems to me that you want the problem resolved rather than for these guys to get the sack, so making a complaint isn't necessarily gonna help that, but the more people fob you off the less likely you are to let it stop without a complaint. When you speak to the inspector (or even just the PC from your relevant Safer Neighbourhoods Team) make sure you drop in the buzzwords "anti-social behaviour" and mention how it's affecting your quality of life, how you're disappointed that it hasn't been taken seriously by the police so far, feel they've let you'd own etc.

 

[Darrenj]

I have spent yesterday afternoon trying to establish where these kids are getting these airsoft guns so I can try to find out what information they are being given about the laws, obviously there is the internet, but Cornwall being Cornwall there are very few retailers, however I have found one quite local to this area and I have had a very interesting conversation with him and it is apparent that all the local kids are getting them from here.

Firstly he stated that he 50% coloured ones are the ones kids generally have, though he did say that you had to be over 18 to buy one but you could then just give it to your child to wreak havoc were his terms, using a 50% coloured weapon in public was frowned upon and it was the ones painted black that were under the law, he then proceeded to tell me how to repaint a 50% coloured into a black one.

So I now know where they are getting their info, maybe the local police are getting their info there as well.

This is the sort of outfit that is putting your sport in jeopardy, if the mods want more info on who it is then please PM me unless its ok to put it on here?.

Comments welcome.

 

[Deva]

Does he sell the black guns too? UKARA may has been disinterested before, but I would imagine they'd be very interested in that. A retailer explaining details on how to change the colours back isn't great!