Some advice?

[Standbystandby]

Hey guys, I am new to the sport and still learning the ropes. I understand the need for a ukara database. My question is does it make any difference if you are a firearms license holder? I have had a firearms license for sometime and it seems odd I can't buy a replica of a real gun I already own!....... Well saying that,knowing the government not that strange!

Cheers Guys

 

[Mack]

No, Firearms certs dont work for buying airsoft guns unfortunatly. Stupid but true.

 

[Standbystandby]

Cheers for the reply bud

 

[TheGrover]

As Mack said. Whilst it makes sense for someone who has access to a real firearm and who has proven that they understand the care needed in owning, transporting and operating a firearm to have access to the big boys toys that they are, neither UKARA or the legislation works that way, and you need to either make the hire-gun pilgrimage or put up with two tone like the rest of us (or explore the alternative routes which are detailed elsewhere)

 

[Standbystandby]

Interestingly I visited a shop recently and spoke with the owner. He said he would be willing to sell a Rif to a person with a shotgun/firearms license. He stated ukara is a defence to protect retailers as much a players. He said if a person has a firearms license they have been vetted to a much higher level the ukara and as such he had no issues.

 

[Baz JJ]

Its largely up to the retailer how they interpret "defence". If he chooses to sell to you on that basis its up to him and we can debate if its right or wrong but its just words. The defence is for him not you, Its not illegal to buy and own airsoft RIFs for adults.

However, you might find that most of the airsoft trade will want a UKARA registration as defence so your choice of supplier will be limited.

In my experience, its only gun shops who sell firearms, air rifle and dabble in fringe airsoft that consider firearms licences suitable for airsoft.

 

[Esoterick]

Aren't the reasonable defences covered in 37:2 of the VCRA?

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/part/2/crossheading/imitation-firearms

I don't normally engage in VCRA discussions as it ends up being a semantics battle but isn't this part clearly outlined or am I missing something?

You could say it's the retailers responsibility but that's dodgy, it's like the shop some of you might know of that encourages people to sign a reenactment form to buy guns from them.... People circumventing the law isn't sending the right message regardless of how enforceable various parts of the VCRA are.

 

[Standbystandby]

Very true Baz as it was an airsoft dedicated shop. I didnt purchase anything from him as I'm waiting for my ukara number and got my eye on a Rif from land warrior. Just thought it was an interesting point.

Cheers

 

[Standbystandby]

Meant wasn't a dedicated shop!

 

[GingerBreadMan]

Aren't the reasonable defences covered in 37:2 of the VCRA?

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/part/2/crossheading/imitation-firearms

I don't normally engage in VCRA discussions as it ends up being a semantics battle but isn't this part clearly outlined or am I missing something?

You could say it's the retailers responsibility but that's dodgy, it's like the shop some of you might know of that encourages people to sign a reenactment form to buy guns from them.... People circumventing the law isn't sending the right message regardless of how enforceable various parts of the VCRA are.

Agree with you and UKARA debates often spiral out of control but:

Yes it could be argued that it may be slightly bending the VCRA, but somebody with a real firearm is less likely to hold up a bank with atoy gun. I think it is simply a matter of proving what the RIF is going to be used for and the person is not going to be a dick with it. Whilst yes, having a firearm licence does not prove that you will be airsofting with it, it does suggest that it will be used sensibly by a person possibly more responsible around firearms and RIFs than your average airsofter.

 

[Baz JJ]

The VCRA is imperfect in so many ways. It is complicated and few people understand it fully, The legisllation quoted above doesnt even mention Airsoft. Every day I see people refer to it as a licence and the questions that get asked on forums and Airsoft Facebook groups just illustrate the complexity.

The shop might be bending the rules, but have you ever considered how many private swopping and sale transactions go on every day?

I dont believe that all these sellers, keen to get cash back on RIFs that they now need for car repairs, this months rent etc worry that much about a UKARA registration...

Its an imperfect compromise legislation, but it allows normal responsible people to have the freedom of airsoft as a hobby.

We could live in a country that just bans it because its all too difficult and for that Im grateful.

What irritates me are ignorant airsofters who scream blue murder if somebody dares to talk about painting a two tone but yet run high power radio sets on illegal frequencies at skirmishes, potentially interfering with other legal users and emergency services because they dont think OFCOM can come after them. People who refuse to buy a licence that costs £20 per year. Ive actually seen airsofters say when challenged "nobody tells me what to do - I will do what I like" - these people also own RIFs.

Like all things, the shit will only hit the fan once some damage is done. Like often happens in the caring, sharing, theres no blame without a claim western world, there will be a witch hunt post mortem and somebody will have to pay the price.

Lets hope its not airsofting as a whole.

 

[BrightCandle]

I am not clear on why airsoft RIFs aren't classified as firearms, I can't be certain but I think they are. They seem to match the description and rules for airguns because there is no minimum power requirement in the law that I know of. So while airsoft IFs/RIFs seem to have additional rules that real weapons don't I think from what I can tell they are still firearms. Which does make you think about other crimes you might be committing with radios and such, because anything you do would be "armed" and that ramps up the minimum sentencing severely.

PS Recently going through the radio licencing myself, minimum cost of £75 from Ofcom.

 

[Baz JJ]

The £75 cost is for 3 or 4 years and can cover a whole team.

 

[TheGrover]

I am not clear on why airsoft RIFs aren't classified as firearms, I can't be certain but I think they are. They seem to match the description and rules for airguns because there is no minimum power requirement in the law that I know of. So while airsoft IFs/RIFs seem to have additional rules that real weapons don't I think from what I can tell they are still firearms. Which does make you think about other crimes you might be committing with radios and such, because anything you do would be "armed" and that ramps up the minimum sentencing severely.

PS Recently going through the radio licencing myself, minimum cost of £75 from Ofcom.

I think the firearms act covers the definition of an IF (and therefore an RIF), basically saying anything capable of lethal or grevious harm than is an IF and anything incabable of such is an imitation

Lines in with my experience, after a family friend was carjacked using an air pistol. After the cops found him, they tested the gun and found it was capable of causing serious harm, and so he was charged with armed robbery instead of just a minor offence.

 

[Sacarathe]

I think it comes down to the whether the item could be classed as "lethal" through measuring the physics, that is, capable of causing death, not serious injury.

 

[Qlimax]

I think it comes down to the whether the item could be classed as "lethal" through measuring the physics, that is, capable of causing death, not serious injury.

just read this, with regards to them being lethal there's a lot of american talk at the moment with regards to Juels and how the impact of an airsoft weapon can go from being none lethal to lethal. It's actually a pretty good read.

For the topic above, as everyone has said being licensed for an actual firearm makes no difference. I have a few firearm licenses but it made no difference. It's always best to start off with a two tone anyway as some are cheap and if you break it or some shite like that it makes no difference where as if you go straight into RIF and pay a lot of money and it breaks.......... It's painful.

All good things come to those who wait. Although i shouldn't say it but there is one Airsoft retailer who simply doesn't care if you have UKARA or not, they will sell you a RIF. my first RIF came from them and i didn't have my UKARA lol.