Restrictions on Gatherings and Airsoft?

[typefish]

It’s all bollocks.

Tier3 in Liverpool, no gyms allowed to open

Tier3 in Lancashire, all gyms allowed to open

When I first heard about that, I didn't think it would end up like this. It's a spit in the face for clarity.

Even more hilariously, I thought that someone would have corrected the typo where it accidentally suggests that those taking part in outdoor shoots are disabled and/or otherwise impaired by now. ?

 

[Rogerborg]

I thought that someone would have corrected the typo where it accidentally suggests that those taking part in outdoor shoots are disabled and/or otherwise impaired by now

I rather suspect that nobody is really reading this legislation any more, not even the people writing it.

 

[Cannonfodder]

Just like they have over the last few weeks you mean?

Exactly. 

What makes me eye roll is that my other half can't visit her parent's at home as they live in a tier 2 area, but they're allowed to visit our house as we're in a tier 1 area

 

[Guest]

Exactly. 

What makes me eye roll is that my other half can't visit her parent's at home as they live in a tier 2 area, but they're allowed to visit our house as we're in a tier 1 area

But they’re not. If you live in a Tier2 area (I do) you take your restrictions whenever you go into a lower tier area, and abide by the restrictions of a higher tier area when you enter that

 

[Rogerborg]

If you live in a Tier2 area (I do) you take your restrictions whenever you go into a lower tier area, and abide by the restrictions of a higher tier area when you enter that

Do you? What restrictions?  I mean, in law.

Burnham refusing to co-operate with bumping Manchester up is an interesting situation.  If he doesn't feel minded to comply because of financial considerations, what example does that set?

Me, I'm going anywhere that's open.

By the way, there were over 50,000 excess Winter deaths in England and Wales in 2017-2018.  Remember that?  Remember the resulting crushing restriction of civil liberties, mass criminalisation, isolation and dehumanisation, the destruction of vast swathes of the economy, half a trillion in borrowing, and the effective suspension of Parliamentary democracy? 

No, me neither.

 

[Guest]

Do you? What restrictions?  I mean, in law.

Burnham refusing to co-operate with bumping Manchester up is an interesting situation.  If he doesn't feel minded to comply because of financial considerations, what example does that set?

Me, I'm going anywhere that's open.

By the way, there were over 50,000 excess Winter deaths in England and Wales in 2017-2018.  Remember that?  Remember the resulting crushing restriction of civil liberties, mass criminalisation, isolation and dehumanisation, the destruction of vast swathes of the economy, half a trillion in borrowing, and the effective suspension of Parliamentary democracy? 

No, me neither.

I’m not going there

 

[Rogerborg]

Mmm, it's an emotive subject.  I'm not for one second downplaying the seriousness of SARS-COV-2, or criticising any individual who wants to protect themselves and their loved ones.

 

[Lozart]

Do you? What restrictions?  I mean, in law.

Burnham refusing to co-operate with bumping Manchester up is an interesting situation.  If he doesn't feel minded to comply because of financial considerations, what example does that set?

Me, I'm going anywhere that's open.

By the way, there were over 50,000 excess Winter deaths in England and Wales in 2017-2018.  Remember that?  Remember the resulting crushing restriction of civil liberties, mass criminalisation, isolation and dehumanisation, the destruction of vast swathes of the economy, half a trillion in borrowing, and the effective suspension of Parliamentary democracy? 

No, me neither.

The peak in 2017/18 was not that unusual al though granted, higher than it's been for a while. Nevertheless it was still a strain of influenza coupled with the particularly cold weather so a known quantity.

The current situation is down to a novel virus with no effective vaccine as yet. We are in uncharted territory and as such life has to step away from normality to deal with it. Like it or not, the most effective way of stopping viral spread is isolation. Huge chunks of the population have demonstrated their unwillingness to comply with even the most simple of guidance so we find ourselves in the current situation. Have the government handled it well? Of course not, but I very much doubt that ANY political party would be handling it well without the general consensus of the population and if this country has proven ANYTHING over the last few months it's that there IS no consensus among the general public, most of whom seem to lack even the most basic of common sense.

As for Manchester, it all just looks like political point scoring at the cost of the people of Manchester. Somehow if Corbyn or Starner were in power I doubt very much that Burnham would be kicking up as much fuss even if presented with the exact same scenario.

 

[Rogerborg]

Huge chunks of the population have demonstrated their unwillingness to comply with even the most simple of guidance

That's the thing, I'm not sure if that's the case, or whether it made much difference if it was.

Some of the apparent mass breaches were fake news: those crowded beach scenes over summer were forced-perspective #ScumMedia trickery to make people appear much closer than they actually were - covidiot outrage sells papers.

The mass rallies of various sorts didn't seem to result in a rise in hospitalisations or deaths. Deaths remain on or under the mean in everywhere in Europe except Spain, including all UK regions. [0]

I'm seeing fairly good compliance with face coverings in shops (and even airsoft sites). 98% of adults self-report as using them[1].

Positive PCR test results (which are not the same as active cases, let alone sickness) are rising among school age children and young adults, which is what you'd expect from schools and universities being back, and not a matter for blame.  Virtually none of them are going to be seriously effected.  Thankfully, positive test results among over 70s aren't rising at all[2].

Yes, large parties where people get pissed up, hug, kiss and shag each other up the back stairs are bad.  But they're already illegal.  Laws only bother the law abiding.  Smart, sensible people won't be popping round their gran's place to lick the spoons regardless of the law.  Chavs will do it despite, or perhaps even to spite, any prohibition on it.

I cannot stress enough how much I am not pooh-poohing this or saying "Yeahbut, Sweden".  I took this seriously from the beginning, and I commend everyone who does at a personal level.

It's the scale and the sustainability of the response that I question: economically, socially, politically, and legally.  Passing and enforcing laws that 78% of people claim that they want[3], but which at least 89% then don't follow[4], doesn't seem to lead to a particularly good place.

And medically, even leaving aside the long tail of untreated cancer diagnoses, there's already a big cost in folk just dying at home rather than seeking help.[5]

Well, I guess that's the world put to rights.  Has anyone posted a comically over-priced toy in Macks?

[0] https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/

[1] https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthandwellbeing/bulletins/coronavirusandthesocialimpactsongreatbritain/16october2020

[2] https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19roundup/2020-03-26

[3] https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/09/23/brits-support-new-lockdown-rules-many-think-they-d

[4] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54586897

[5] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54598728

 

[Stratton Oakmont]

82, I repeat 82. 
the Current average age of a death from covid.

Average uk life expectancy 2019

81

82, I repeat 82. 
the Current average age of a death from covid.

Average uk life expectancy 2019

81

Covid, is it really that newsworthy?

or is it a really good way to divert attention away from brexit no deal?

 

[typefish]

Wales will be cutting down metaphorical trees in an attempt to quell the spread of Coronavirus

Essentially they've reverted to their previous position of not allowing anyone outside of the house unless a reasonable excuse applies. Boo.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/wsi/2020/1149/pdfs/wsi_20201149_en.pdf

 

[Rogerborg]

I thought "fire break" was a little on the nose, since creating one is a destructive process.

However, you could also view a controlled burn of parts of a forest as some sort of... sylvan cinder immunity.

I'm not sure if locking students up together so that they all get a 2 day cough and then get over it is deliberate or accidental, but either way it seems like a pretty good idea.

 

[Rogerborg]

Well, that's most of Scotland by population going straight into tier 3, which means no indoor adults sports.

I was booked in for woodland today, but last night the site put up a new set of rules.

• Single household cars, which means more traffic than usual.
  
• Temperature checks, sign in and BB purchase on the access road. The single track access road with no passing places or turning points and strictly entry-only from 8am until 10am.  Think that one through.  What exactly happens if one person in your car is too hot according to their Fisher Price Mr No Entry Tempy Checky?
  
• Players to stay in their household car at all times between games until summoned to the next brief. No moving around, no socialising.
  
• Muzzles to be worn at all times except while in your car, or during a game. Yes, at all other times, outdoors, with 2m distancing.  Game on, muzzles off; game over, muzzles on.
  

Whether they were instructed to do all that by the council, or whether it's their own policy, it's insane.  Literally, not rational.  It's cult behaviour, rituals to ward off evil spirits.

Hand sanitisers. They have hand sanitisers on site. For a 2m separated non-contact sport in which nobody will be touching anybody else or their gear anyway. So, why?  For the religious symbolism, that's why.

It's only going to get worse from here. No travel in or out of tier 3/4 in Scotland.  Given the above, it seems likely that businesses will be told to, or will choose to, enforce that sooner or later. "No, mate, you can't come in here, you're from a low infection area, we can't let you take that risk."

Winter 2017/2018: 50,100 excess deaths in England and Wales. We went about our lives exactly as normal.

Deaths from covid-19 so far: 44,745. And yet we've lost our collective minds. 26,000 extra people have died at home rather than seeking or receiving hospital care.

Nah, I'm out.  I can't recreate that way.  It's against my secular rationalist principles: that's just what I was raised to not believe.

I'll be packing up my stuff until the New Normal looks to be within a long sniper shot of sanity again.

View attachment 64179

 

[Guest]

Well, that's most of Scotland by population going straight into tier 3, which means no indoor adults sports

oerr misses ????

 

[Musica]

I'll be packing up my stuff until the New Normal looks to be within a long sniper shot of sanity again.

Sorry to hear that mate I really thought you were getting in some "OK" pew pew. We will be back to not hearing each other on the radios soon enough.

I got my RTX 3080 on Friday so my virtual pew pews have intensified!

 

[typefish]

Well, that's most of Scotland by population going straight into tier 3, which means no indoor adults sports.

Judging by what I've read on the Scotsman, tier 3 is no outdoor sports at all?

Edit: I lie, finally managed to find the "draft" of this on the Scottish government website

outdoor – all except adult (18+) contact sports (professional permitted)

should be all good then for all tiers?

 

[MiK]

Not 100% sure about up north but in England T3 is as follows pertaining to us (from my understanding)

At a minimum, this means:

> you must not socialise with anybody you do not live with or have formed a support bubble with, in any indoor setting or in any private garden or at most outdoor hospitality venues and ticketed events

> you must not socialise in a group of more than 6 in an outdoor public space such as a park or beach, the countryside, a public garden or a sports venue

> you should try to avoid travelling outside the very high alert level area you are in or entering a very high alert level area, other than for things like work, education or youth services, to meet caring responsibilities or if you are travelling through as part of a longer journey

> you should avoid staying overnight in another part of the UK if you are resident in a very high alert level area, or avoid staying overnight in a very high alert level area if you are resident elsewhere

So it means for me that I can’t go to any site that’s in a zone that it’s T3 if I don’t live within it and if I do live within the zone it’s 6 persons max.

Which means I wouldn’t be allowed to head to say anything within Nottinghamshire or stay over as I don’t live within Nottinghamshire - that’s before I even think about playing at a site......

 

[typefish]

Not 100% sure about up north but in England T3 is as follows pertaining to us (from my understanding)

At a minimum, this means:

> you must not socialise with anybody you do not live with or have formed a support bubble with, in any indoor setting or in any private garden or at most outdoor hospitality venues and ticketed events

> you must not socialise in a group of more than 6 in an outdoor public space such as a park or beach, the countryside, a public garden or a sports venue

> you should try to avoid travelling outside the very high alert level area you are in or entering a very high alert level area, other than for things like work, education or youth services, to meet caring responsibilities or if you are travelling through as part of a longer journey

> you should avoid staying overnight in another part of the UK if you are resident in a very high alert level area, or avoid staying overnight in a very high alert level area if you are resident elsewhere

So it means for me that I can’t go to any site that’s in a zone that it’s T3 if I don’t live within it and if I do live within the zone it’s 6 persons max.

Which means I wouldn’t be allowed to head to say anything within Nottinghamshire or stay over as I don’t live within Nottinghamshire - that’s before I even think about playing at a site......

No, you can currently go to any site in England and Scotland (and probably NI too), although I've recommended that people who are resident in an area covered by the English Tier 3 shouldn't skirmish - but if they do, to keep local.

Although travelling a fair distance to play is also something I'd recommend against

 

[Smiling-Dutchman]

Just read about the latest restrictions, I guess that's no airsoft for a month then?

Bummer, should've booked a space this weekend, but don't really want to play in the rain.

 

[MiK]

They are saying 2nd December but if people ignore it I bet the “2nd” might be a tad longer.......