Membership numbers and influence

[EDcase]

Fencers wear suits that register hits.  No reason that airsofters couldn't in a real competition.  

Foil & Saber fencing use simple electrical circuits in a limited space where the two participants are tethered with a cable to the control box.

I've thought about it before and honestly don't know how accurate scoring could be achieved with airsoft.

The closest related tech would be laser tag but that is obviously more accurate than blowing BBs out of a tube so they wouldn't be compatible.

Personally I'd be happy to drop the whole BB firing thing to be replaced with low power laser or IR and mechanical recoil.

It would essentially be a version of laser tag with more realistic weapons.

I'd miss making holes in paper targets of course but worth it I think to eliminate the honour system.

(And no, I'm not going to bugger off to play laser tag instead because they don't use RIFs ?)

But having a robust scoring system would be the first step to making it a legitimate sport.

Although the premise of people 'shooting' each other in mock combat for fun may still have some opposition.

 

[EDcase]

-Double post-

 

[Rogerborg]

fencing as a completive sport is done indoors where as airsoft is quiet often played outers where there is tree branches tall grass, knocking into structures and weather such as rain. Any suits sensors would be going off every other second. 

... acorns...

 

[Madhouse]

Personally I'd be happy to drop the whole BB firing thing to be replaced with low power laser or IR and mechanical recoil.

It would essentially be a version of laser tag with more realistic weapons.

This is actually a pretty good idea, it'd certainly rule out ambiguity as to whether someone's been hit or not although the new version of cheating the chrono will be installing a military grade laser ?. Side benefits are that not using a projectile will also appease a lot of the haters and it'd also mean that all the sellers in Mack's whose pew 'shoots like a laser' will finally be correct.

Of course the major barrier is that it's a global sport so you'd either need everyone to swap at the same time or more realistically develop some kind of retro-fit device to turn dry fire into a laser beam.

 

[Dan Robinson]

But I like shooting puddles. 

 

[RostokMcSpoons]

I've just played cqb laser tag in a works night out.  Great fun and everything in a short dose, but trying to get the darned things to register hits, even at 6 ft away was often a bit ridiculous

And there's always some one backed into a corner with their arms crossed over the front sensor, who is pinging people as they go past with total impunity.  

I played a full range version at the Milton Keynes karting track a couple? few? years ago, where the sensors were on mock plate carriers and helmets.  That worked ok-ish but I think most of the guns shoot way off from the sights and it was very hard (ok,  impossible) to tell how far to aim off when you're in combat.  I was good at that and got voted MVP in both sessions, but it still wasn't a patch on Airsoft

 

[EDcase]

I'm sure the technology has moved on since the last generation of kit

But I like shooting puddles. 

Yeah, maybe they could have the two different modes ?

 

[Lozart]

Personally I'd be happy to drop the whole BB firing thing to be replaced with low power laser or IR and mechanical recoil.

I did literally this at Warfighters way back for my best mates stag do. Everyone had an adapted rifle with the same system that the army use for not actually shooting each other on exercise (headband with IR sensors etc). Everyone had a speaker box that made pew noises and if you got "killed" it made a death groan and your gun stopped working. They also had round counting on the mags so you got 20 shots or so then had to physically change mag to start firing again. It was....different.

 

[EDcase]

Yeah, I imagine it would feel quite different and not necessarily better.

I was just saying that its the only way to make it a more legitimate 'sport'

 

[Pseudotectonic]

Yeah even with something advanced with actual IR lasers (like an actual "straight line" laser) and not the laser tag LEDs you still get a whole different set of issues... (some already mentioned)

- You can get people cheating with multiple emitters with omnidirectional lens with 1000 RPS and infinite ammo and infinite range

- Plus risks of eye damage, but the source is now invisible so you can't detect a risk before it is too late

- Mirrors and reflective surfaces = infinite ricochet?

- No sound when hitting covers and barricades, so you can't tell if you are getting pinned, and you can't suppress enemy with the same

 

[gavinkempsell]

Has everyone forgotten the point of firing bb's at each other?

 

[EDcase]

Yeah, we got carried way off topic.  Lets stick to what we've got and forget making it more mainstream ?

 

[Shamal]

But I like shooting puddles. 

Yeah agree. My fav is seeing how many shots to knock a complete leaf off.

The amount of times I've been hit while distracted by playing'You're dead leaf' ?

 

[gavinkempsell]

You're dead leaf

Still counts as a kill

 

[Tommikka]

The other thread on attracting players ties into this as well.  Particularly of note are the mentions of exercise / health benefits 



The Olympics have been mentioned, which is of course a topic that comes up among many activities every 4 years when someone makes a post such as “How come breakdance/gymnastics/latest demonstration is in the Olympics and x isn’t? They aren’t a sport and my thing is”

The answer is that people involved in those put in the effort to participate, establish national bodies, collaborate internationally and go through the national and international recognition processes.

Airsoft does not have to discard types of airsoft to make itself politically correct, it would in fact fracture itself and make backward steps.

It should not be pursued as a route to the Olympics but as a route to a number of benefits within each nation - healthy activities, benefiting society

Numbers are required - but that’s not the be all an end all

Delta Force (those who market themselves in shopping centres selling ‘discount’ tickets - which turn out to be paying the pitch and staff cost to obtain a booking phone number) have jumped on the bandwagon a few times claiming to be the representative body and trying to convince Sport England that everyone who has ever signed a rental disclaimer with them is a paintballer (to qualify them as representing all paintballers in the UK)

They were laughed out 

The UKPSF is the recognised representative body by the Home Office since before it was the UK (it was a European body run by one man in the UK until others took on the mainland Europe elements)

They represent the industry and players

The process for sports has been going on for a number of years.  Paintball still has not achieved sports recognition but is recognised as on its path, during Covid the UKPSF were treated by Sport England as if they were a formally recognised sports representative body and opening for UKPSF member sites in accordance with the UKPSF policies submitted was approved

(Non UKPSF sites may also have opened including Delta Force - and did so in breach of the reopening regulations)

(shooting each other of no concern as far as Sport England are concerned)

International tournaments take place already, even with different laws & rules in different countries - the national & international leagues set rules appropriately

(Even an attempt for one international organisation set a ‘standardised international rule book’ consisting of world rules and US rules, let alone competing leagues in the US and each country)

Note that tournaments do cover the obvious speedball format,  but there are also woods/scenario leagues - airsoft can have both recreational & competitive skirmishing plus speedsoft etc as a range of activities - these also can be shown in recognition submissions as inclusive pathways from grassroots to varying destinations and crossovers from the ‘professionals’ putting in support to local sites and groups 

On a numbers basis Sport England requires a minimum of 1600 paid up player members.

The UKPSF did run a free basic membership promotion for a few years - no good for qualifying numbers, but a step along the way and have moved those on to annual / 5 year memberships 

(On a quick check - I’m due for renewal this year)

They commissioned a study with Leeds Becket University, some parts of which I’ve seen, but I’ll avoid mentioning what as I do get involved with other members of the industry and could be discussing public and non public parts of the study.  It covers numerous factors to establish benefits covering health/exercise, social benefits etc 

Every now and then they publish a point from the study but are using the data in their bids with Sport England, lottery funding, information to member cohorts etc so are cagey about what fully goes public from a pricey study and also because they are pushing elements to improve 

One quote published is about social anxiety, confidence etc 

https://www.facebook.com/UKPSF/photos/a.290380091078069/3752634168185960/?type=3&mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v

Sites are a factor - contributing to the economy and providing facilities - though commercial they can be supported by community initiatives for grants etc if they build a case for how investment aids them to provide leisure to the community 

With the VCRA / UKARA airsoft must be able to establish evidence of a good level of paid up membership, and as a shooting activity could follow the same pathway as the UKPSF ….. it’s not essential to have one body covering sites/retail/trade/players/teams
 

 

[Dan Robinson]

Yeah agree. My fav is seeing how many shots to knock a complete leaf off.

The amount of times I've been hit while distracted by playing'You're dead leaf' ?

Airsofters gonna airsoft ????.

Drawing todgers in the frozen stream at AWA was a fun way to warm up the pews whe. It was -6 a couple of Christmas' ago.

Also fun chopping down ferns, brambles and stinging nettles "for the greater good".

 

[Pseudotectonic]

@Tommikka very informative post

Airsoft Olympics vs Airsoft

I would argue airsoft does not have to lose anything, because the format and ruleset for Airsoft Olympics will necessarily be something new, it is yet to be invented, but of course those international tournaments will be good references.

Airsoft vs Paintball

Airsoft has advantages over paintball being a less messy and arguably more scalable and accessible, and with an improved ruleset (including mandating a certain player to ref ratio, for example, to minimize cheating) I think airsoft has a better potential than paintball at growing.

Delta Force had a valid vision but wrongly executed.

UKPSF is perhaps halfway there, airsoft just need to surpass it.

PR Department

Yes health benefits + social media campaign is a good idea. We need to make some social media accounts and start posting positive stuff. Perhaps we need a mascot.

 

[Pseudotectonic]

On the topic of airsoft leagues, just come across this thing in the US called Competitive Speedsoft League which looks rather well organized

It is livestreaming a game with announcers and everything https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uu3IiWJw7JQ

Just thought it's relevant

 

[Pseudotectonic]

Sorry for spamming, but apparently the Japanese is already in the future, there is this thing called Fastgun which is exactly what @EDcase was saying, airsoft but laser tag with IR, no BBs

Although it does look rather underwhelming with no actual indication of where exactly you hit (the only receiver is on the head)... with BB you can see where it went so I guess there is that

https://youtu.be/yF6GEDKLk-I?feature=shared&t=800

 

[EDcase]

Interesting

One could say its more realistic because you can't see real bullets