Legit tactic or...

[LMKipper]

I went to a filmsim/battlesim at the weekend and mostly had a good time but came up against a ‘tactic’ that I thought was a bit pants to be honest. However, I’m interested to know if I’m being overly sensitive.

I was defending an objective, which was in a room in a house. It’s very noisy – shouting, loads of grenades etc. Generally hard to hear what’s going on. Suspecting some OpFor in the neighbouring room, I popped an impact grenade around the doorframe. Pop – no kills. About 10 seconds later, an impact grenade comes back around the doorframe into my room. I hear a loud bang as the impact hits the deck (I’ve got ear pro in) and take the hit. Bloke charges in, fair play we’re all done.

He then loudly exclaims to his mates that he threw my own dead impact back into the room with me and starts laughing. I said ‘oh well I’m not dead then’ and knife kill him in return, and he says ‘no you are, you took the hit’ and it’s my own fault for not recognising the bang didn’t go off. I said this is stupid – for a start you shouldn’t touch other players pyro, but also next time it encourages people to not take grenade hits in case they were fake. He said he'd seen it on YouTube. I just took the hit and walked off, because I didn’t want any more aggro.

Thoughts? Is this a legit tactic and I should shut up, or is this completely pants?
 

 

[Skara]

two problems:

a) y'all should give up on the "grenade kills the whole room" or mercy/knife kills altogether.

b) whenever those rules are in play, there needs to be a ref/marshal INSIDE the room the pyro is thrown in, otherwise it's the wild west.

 

[Cannonfodder]

Imo lobbing something that's not a grenade is a legitimate tactic, however I do agree that he should've used something else rather than your grenade. Pretty much every cqb site I've been to has a rule that you don't pick up other people's grenades.

That being said from your post the guy does sound like he's a bit of a bellend

 

[BigStew]

Picking up other peoples grenades big no no. Throwing a dummy or a spent non reusable pyro as distraction? perfectly acceptable. Never seen some one take a hit from a dead/dummy grenade but i have used them as distraction device to get through a door while people are trying to take cover. If you took the hit thats on you, but agreed the guy sounds like a bellend. 

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Imo lobbing something that's not a grenade is a legitimate tactic, however I do agree that he should've used something else rather than your grenade. Pretty much every cqb site I've been to has a rule that you don't pick up other people's grenades.

This, throwing a mars bar in and shouting frag out only to then blast folk as they scramble is a legit tactic.

But mucking with other peoples nades without their permission is not on.

 

[Tackle]

Agree, never touch anyone's kit, but spoofing people, especially with stuff that clearly doesn't look like a grenade, that's just a giggle?.

Rubber chicken anyone ?

 

[LMKipper]

If he'd thrown a bit of old shit in the door, I'd have been less bothered and obviously not taken it. It was the fact it was an impact, and it made a decent bang when it just hit the floor that I assumed it had gone off - like it had a little 209 primer in or similar.

I think what also narked me more was that this was a battlesim/filsim/milsim-lite job and I expected better, but I appreciate this is on me. I know there's only so much realism you can cram into toy guns, but throwing a spent grenade at an actual enemy IRL would not result in them keeling over due to a misunderstanding ?

 

[Tackle]

If he'd thrown a bit of old shit in the door, I'd have been less bothered and obviously not taken it. It was the fact it was an impact, and it made a decent bang when it just hit the floor that I assumed it had gone off - like it had a little 209 primer in or similar.

I think what also narked me more was that this was a battlesim/filsim/milsim-lite job and I expected better, but I appreciate this is on me. I know there's only so much realism you can cram into toy guns, but throwing a spent grenade at an actual enemy IRL would not result in them keeling over due to a misunderstanding ?

Yeah I was going to add, for a regular walk on day , no big deal, but for a dedicated milsim or similar, it should be taken more seriously.

 

[Galvatron]

Throwing a dummy is fair game but there are no circumstances during gameplay under which he should pick up IG/BFGs other than his own.

"I saw it on YouTube" is a dickless attempt for the OpFor to rationalise himself.

 

[Rogerborg]

for a start you shouldn’t touch other players pyro

What did the marshals say when you told them about that?

 

[LMKipper]

There was a guy in the room playing the VIP (who was part of the organisation team) who saw the whole thing. He seemed entirely disinterested by it - in fact when I tried to bring him into the conversation, he remained resolute in his silence. I spoke to one of the proper marshals later, who agreed touching other pyro a no-no and was quick to point out he'd mentioned it in the brief but by this time I'd forgotten what the player who did it looked like. "I dunno mate, camo trousers with an M4..."

 

[hitmanNo2]

The site in question doesn't rhyme with mongmoor does it?

 

[Baser]

As above, part of our fields CQB briefing is “Do not pick up anyone else’s reusable grenades” leave them where they are or if they are a trip hazard move them to the side of the corridor or room, if I randomly find one I just tell the Marshall where it is when’s there’s a lull in the action. 
 

Distracting you in any other way is fair game, I’d be pleased he didn’t come through the door and shoot me to make sure. 
 

 

[Jez_Armstrong]

He threw your grenade back at you? 

I would have grabbed his pistol from his Holster and thrown it in a tree 

Fair game 

 

[THE CHIEF]

I cleared a pillbox once by shouting grenade and lobbing a Mr Kipling apple pie through the front. This was a regular skirmish. No one was declared dead (and I wouldn't expect them to be) but they did run out the back doorway like their arse was on fire. All fair and above board. But grabbing someone else's pyro is not on really. Diversion or distraction is fair enough if using your own gear and initiative. 

 

[Tommikka]

Bottom line - you called yourself out

Adding a knife kill because you were grumpy makes you the dickhead of your own story 

Once you have called yourself out then you are out until you - exit the game & re-enter, respawn, get healed or an authorised person such as a Marshall declares you a live player 

Grenade elimination rules can vary widely, indoors the trend is that within a confined space (AKA not a giant room) all are eliminated unless they get out or get behind hard cover (in some rules soft cover could be defined as hard cover - such as herris fencing with a tarp over it if that is defined a wall etc)

So without further information it is fair that you failed to get a grenade kill (they went to cover) and that a grenade kill succeeded against you (confined space)

He may have been laughing that he was making a distraction throw but you called yourself out on a non-detonation (of your own grenade)

Many things can be used as a distraction, eg if he threw a thing to distract you then run in and shoot you

It’s still down to you that you misinterpreted the noise and called yourself out 

(The solution to misinterpreted noise of a heavy impact grenade on a hard surface is to not use them, but to use general disposable pyro with flag & bang)

The other matter is that it is the general standard to leave other players gear alone - reusable grenades, discarded magazines, guns etc - I often put down my gun if I want to make a directed throw around a corner etc

There is a level of common sense, in that if the object is in the way, could be a lost object etc - in which case you put it aside to a safer spot, to a marshal etc, bring it back to the safe zone etc 

I normally carry my empties but may stack them up, and one magazine alone may look lost, or I may have actually dropped it

He was in the wrong to throw back your grenade, but an educational experience was ruined by the dead man’s knife kill

 

[Anonymoose]

I popped an impact grenade around the doorframe. Pop – no kills. About 10 seconds later, an impact grenade comes back around the doorframe into my room. I hear a loud bang as the impact hits the deck (I’ve got ear pro in) and take the hit.

When you chucked the grenade did it fail to go off? And when you say "dummy grenade" do you mean a typical airsoft pyro or something that looks like a grenade but is inert?

To me (uninitiated newbie) if a "grenade" lands near me and doesn't go off it may as well be a tennis ball or an apple and i wouldn't think of it as a kill.

In the same way if you aim at a player and pull the trigger but your gun's empty and no BB comes out the barrel then you haven't hit them. If they then aim and fire at you, and their BB does hit you, you're dead.

I may be completely wrong, but that's my take.

What do you do if an Irishman throws a grenade at you?

Pull the pin out and throw it back. ??‍

 

[Rogerborg]

There is a level of common sense, in that if the object is in the way, could be a lost object etc - in which case you put it aside to a safer spot, to a marshal etc, bring it back to the safe zone etc 

There is a level of legal implication. The instant you appropriate someone else's property after having been told not to touch it, you lose the Theft Act 1968 section 2 (1) (b) dishonesty defence to theft, and have to rely on intent.

Of course, everyone who finds and appropriates property will claim that their intent was to throw it back, or put it somewhere safe, or hand it to a marshal, or ask around the safe zone, or ask on the Facebook group when they find it in their dump pouch later.  Most people will even claim that honestly. But someone sticky-fingering a BFG or mag will claim it twice as vehemently if caught.

This is why I'm wary about picking up anything on site, for any reason, as opposed to standing over it until the owner or a marshal shows up, or moving it carefully aside with a foot.  I know I'm not going to steal your stuff, but there's no way that you can know that, any more than I can know that you weren't intending to steal mine.

On a pragmatic note, well meaning people who pick up items from the floor and put them somewhere "visible": please, please don't.  Nudge them to the side, sure, but I'm always going to be searching for them on the ground.  I've lost count of the times that I've walked right past grenades that have been put up on a ledge or barrel.

 

[Tackle]

There was a guy in the room playing the VIP (who was part of the organisation team) who saw the whole thing. He seemed entirely disinterested by it - in fact when I tried to bring him into the conversation

Odds on it was because the wrongdoer was a regular there, one of the usual mouthy Teflon warriors that we've all had the misfortune to come across at sites.

 

[Impulse]

I cleared a pillbox once by shouting grenade and lobbing a Mr Kipling apple pie through the front.

I can't believe you wasted a perfectly good Mr Kipling apple pie. This might be a worse crime than picking up someone else's pyro to be honest.

But to talk about the topic at hand... there's nothing wrong with throwing a not-grenade into a room to try and clear it, but nobody should take a hit because of it. My favourite is pine cones, but I'd never expect anyone to take a hit as if it was actually a grenade. The whole idea of fake grenades is to get people to run out of the room or clear the area because they think it's a grenade. If someone obviously called a hit from it, I'd tell them they're not dead and it was a cheeky pine cone to try and get them to displace.

However, the guy picking up your grenade and tossing it back is a big no-no. Never touch anyone else's reusable grenades, because that's how they go missing. The person who has spent the money on that reusable pyro is 100% going to head into the room at some point to pick it up ad not just forget about it, because they're not cheap!