Is the "Specna Arms SA-C25 - CORE PDW AEG" a good choice?

[ModernTimes]

Then why not the sa-c08? https://www.patrolbase.co.uk/specna-arms-sa-c08-core-tm-carbine-aeg?pv=17821

It has everything you'll need from a first gun.

Agreed, I don't see much reason to pay C25 prices.  They're both polymer, I'm unclear if the C25 is significantly better.  The only actual feature difference is the X-ASR mosfet, but that does nothing except trigger contact protection, and mine balks at aftermarket motors.  Both are fine for length, anything more than that is just willy-waggling for airsoft use.

And don't worry about the quoted FPS figures, those will be using Specna's stock M90 spring.  Fine for CQB, just about enough for woodland. Drop in an M100 through the quick-change system and you're good to go.

The G&G, hmm. It's a lot more than I'd want to pay for one, given how feature-poor it is.  The sight may be functional, or a gimmick.  That said, G&Gs do tend to shoot very nicely, and that's what actually matters, not the feature list.  You probably won't regret it.

Really fair points. Honestly I don't have much to go on and I think I'm slightly overthinking it but your really right in saying that there's no point me paying more for basically the exact same gun in terms of internals and how it handles so I will put the C08 as my backup instead of the one original C25 mentioned in the topic. It looks good and it's cheaper than the others I was considering and it is basically a middle ground between a PDW and a full longer barrel carbine so I do really like it.

Thanks for mentioning the spring Rogerborg. I didn't really know you could actually do that haha

I'll elaborate more:

Having a realistic feeling gun is great, but in terms of actual performance on the field, the body being polymer or metal doesn't make any difference.

Thing is, we are mostly lumping around our guns all day and slowly drain our energy.

The weight of the thing will determine at what point in time you'll start to hate your life

I'd rather have an all polymer gun that is light and manoeuvrable than something realistic looking but that will tire out my arms quickly.

with that being said, Specna (along with Evolution, Dboys and Saigo Defense) offers more than G&G despite having a lower price point:

proper steel bushings, decent brass barrel, QC gearbox and rotary hop unit, whereas G&G insists on brass bushings, pressed tinfoil barrels and those stupid geared hop units that a) are more expensive to make and b) they are flawed in design because they tend to unwind themselves. And they out screws on the wrong side of the gearbox -.-

you pay for the brand (and a fancy polymer body with the 2.0 series) but get outdated internals.

I know you can replace those parts on a G&G buy why pay more and replace parts when you can spend less and have them on board already?

Yeah I did have a bit of a issue with the weight but I carried a similar weighted gun in a match and I didn't find it too bad so I assumed it was going to be fine but another good point. No point paying more for just extra weight. I know it might seem like I'm making a bit stupid decision but I really don't have much to go on other than other people's experiences and reviews and quite honestly this whole picking the gun thing is just confusing so I appreciate everyone who has commented and helped me out. Thank you!

The C25 is available without the PDW stock.

https://mpa-airsoft.com/product/specna-arms-sa-c12-black/

Thanks for the recommendation but as another poster mentioned I think the C08 is just overall better. I just wanted the smaller form factor because I thought it would help it being lighter and whilst it does I believe it slightly lowers the range and now looking at it more and more after sifting through multiple guns over the past week I kind of prefer longer barrels. ?

And I believe the combat machines still use a geared hop up, compared to the specna's rotary hop up, which is just a better design. 

Its a small thing, but if you want to do something simple like change a hop rubber, you will be thankful for the rotary hop unit. 

No clue what this is but I'll have a look into it and see if I can learn how to do it. Thanks for the tip!

 

[Skara]

Btw I own a C-08, it's my tournament gun

Although there is nothing original left inside apart from the gearbox shell

 

[Rogerborg]

Thanks for mentioning the spring Rogerborg. I didn't really know you could actually do that haha

Yup, Specnas ship with an M120 and an M90 spring for different markets. The M120 isn't much use for the UK, being too hot for an auto-gun, but not quite enough to run it as a semi-auto DMR. The M90 should notionally give you about 295fps on a 0.2g BB, although you may see a bit more.  Like a lot of airsoft, "M" numbers aren't well defined but are generally interpreted as meaning metres-per-second with a 0.2g BB, all highly dependent on air seal, barrel and so on.  The M90 should be spot on for indoor CQB, but you might want a bit more for woodland.

If you do, all Specnas come with a quick change spring system which lets you change the spring... well, quickly.  You'll need a long screwdriver, a chonky hex key, and a bit of patience the first time, but it's easy enough to do, and an M95 or M100 spring will run you £6.50 delivered.

 

[ModernTimes]

Yup, Specnas ship with an M120 and an M90 spring for different markets. The M120 isn't much use for the UK, being too hot for an auto-gun, but not quite enough to run it as a semi-auto DMR. The M90 should notionally give you about 295fps on a 0.2g BB, although you may see a bit more.  Like a lot of airsoft, "M" numbers aren't well defined but are generally interpreted as meaning metres-per-second with a 0.2g BB, all highly dependent on air seal, barrel and so on.  The M90 should be spot on for indoor CQB, but you might want a bit more for woodland.

If you do, all Specnas come with a quick change spring system which lets you change the spring... well, quickly.  You'll need a long screwdriver, a chonky hex key, and a bit of patience the first time, but it's easy enough to do, and an M95 or M100 spring will run you £6.50 delivered.

Thanks. I'll pick that up but how does that help exactly? Doesn't the spring just make it more powerful? Can't I just adjust that gear thing inside the gun when you cock it back? I saw the marshalls doing that when they were chrono'ing the guns before the matches and I figured since you can adjust the power that way can't I just do that instead of getting a new spring?

 

[Skara]

Thanks. I'll pick that up but how does that help exactly? Doesn't the spring just make it more powerful? Can't I just adjust that gear thing inside the gun when you cock it back? I saw the marshalls doing that when they were chrono'ing the guns before the matches and I figured since you can adjust the power that way can't I just do that instead of getting a new spring?

That's the hop up and has little to do with power.

 

[Rogerborg]

Thanks. I'll pick that up but how does that help exactly? Doesn't the spring just make it more powerful?

Well, yes.  The spring (along with air seal, piston-to-barrel volume) limits your muzzle energy and muzzle energy is what ultimately limits your maximum range.  PatrolBase list the CA-08 at "Approx. 310fps ± 10%, using 0.20g BB" which is OK.  That comes out to about 0.89J, most site limits are around 1.13J (which they might phrase as "350fps with a 0.2g BB") and the hard legal limit for an automatic airsoft gun in the UK is 1.3J.

You won't have to change the spring, the stock M90 will be fine.  It's more a case of if you do want to chase site limits and every inch of range, a quick change system like that on the Specnas makes it much easier than taking the whole thing apart and opening up the gearbox every time.

And what matters much more is shooting effectively and consistently within the range you have, which brings us to...

Can't I just adjust that gear thing inside the gun when you cock it back? I saw the marshalls doing that when they were chrono'ing the guns before the matches and I figured since you can adjust the power that way can't I just do that instead of getting a new spring?

As Skara says, that's the hop up.  It will effect your muzzle energy, but indirectly, and that's absolutely not what it's for.

What it does it to add backspin to the BB, which through the science-magic of the Magnus effect gives it a straight-ish flight path.  Without applying hop, BBs will drop out of the air quickly and you'd have to shoot in an arc to lob them any distance.  With the hop spot on, they fly in a spookily straight line until they eventually run out of energy and drop abruptly out of the air.

This is a fairly decent video, although it makes the airsoft magic claim that "fps" (i.e. muzzle energy) isn't important.  Both are.  Hop gets you accuracy, and I'm agree that it's more important, but BBs do obey the laws of physics and energy is what determines how far they will ultimately go, whether straight or lobbed.

So: decide what weight of BBs you want to use.  Heavier tend to be more consistent and will go further.  This seems counter-intuitive, as a heavier BB will start off slower than a light BB (shot from the same gun), but the heavier one holds onto its kinetic energy better, is slightly less effected by wind, and ultimately goes further.

I tend to use 0.28g in AEGs, as a decent compromise between cost and effectiveness, many other opinions are available.

Set your hop as per that video above (you have a decent rotary hop unit which is adjusted like the G36 hop at 2:20) so that you get a nice straight flight with your chosen weight.  That'll be the best you can do with the spring and air seal that you've got.  Then you might (or might not) want to be think about chasing site energy limits.  Hop is much more important though. 

And there's really no need to worry about any of this stuff until you've played a bit and got a feel for how well your gun actually works.  Cleaning the barrel and hop rubber before use then feeding it decent BBs and getting the hop dialled in will mean you're competitive with most folk out there.