Is black really that bad?

[magicaldr]

I have black and done some serious damage with it at dusk, it can work in woodland settings if you find the shadows and sit in em. Had a marshal 5 feet away jump when I opened up on someone creeping up on us, he hadn't spotted me tucked up against a fallen tree

That said, I switched to DPM for woodland a while back and you get shot a lot less. Black works occasionally, woodland DPM is the reverse, it occasionally doesn't work (normally in places like tire stacks where black does). I am now on 2nd gen (in my view) woodland with ATACS FG which I love (Star wars fan, looks like Endor moon camo).

Not sure until working predator armour comes out anything will work everywhere, but specialist camo for what majority of stuff around you looks like will help. Still that said, nothing wrong with black played with care you can go a long way

 

[bigshep]

At last years Xmas game I managed to sneak up and shoot 4 or 5 players in the back dressed as a 6' overweight bright green and red gnome. This was through a thin birch wood with not a lot of cover.

So black can work as can other colours, its how you use the environment around you that's important.

If you like your kit, don't worry two hoots about what anyone else thinks, its your game, play it the way you want.

 

[32deano51]

there is nothing wrong with the black kit it looks epic but not the most practical, I must say I agree with Ian here with using British DPM in the Forrest sites but this Italian camo looks epic and works a treat in allot of natural settings have a look at these pics of it in action.

You could use some of your black kit with this camo.

View attachment 5123

View attachment 5124

 

[Tariq]

Vegetato is awesome. Moving to it for my summer / autumn kit

 

[Ian_Gere]

there is nothing wrong with the black kit it looks epic but not the most practical, I must say I agree with Ian here with using British DPM in the Forrest sites but this Italian camo looks epic and works a treat in allot of natural settings have a look at these pics of it in action.
You could use some of your black kit with this camo.

I'm sort of +1ing Tariq, except I'm not planning to buy any vegetato. It's excellent for farmland, where there's visible soil and crops, or maybe for parts of the UK where the soil is quite poor so there's bare earth patches between light vegetation - parts of the New Forest I'm thinking, although not Ground Zero so much (British DPM or flecktarn for late autumn/winter without snow). But yeah, black does look cool, and I reckon there's a lot to be said for the extra confidence that feeling like you look the dogs bollocks promotes as a game enhancer...

I've got some Viet Cong-ish blacks that I like, but I would like to get a black vest and go for an insane, armed to the max, suicide bomb carrying terrorist loadout, with a full-on Dervish black head-dress - just to really give the M4 squad something to get het up over lol!

Oh yeah, and a 1 1/2-handed sword in bendy plastic to go with!

 

[two_zero]

Whilst I'm a fan of the whole British army desert camo, I've gone out and brought a complete black load out. For cqb stuff and Raf upper heyford.
I like the swat/sas look, but a few mates are saying its a bad move, but I can blend in with shadows, and let's be fair black isn't as bad as say bright colours. I could always get some desert combats and a shirt suppose, with my black helmet, molle vest and RIF etc?

black is great if you want to be spotted by anyone and anything from miles.

Ever seen a black shadow? If you have to go with dark loadout, better go dark blue, dark grey, night camo, navy camo etc (thou I do realize black is easier to source).

Desert is surprisingly effective, quite light so not too bad for cqb, and fits well in with dead grass etc.

Generally thou I'd say marpat seems to be the best camo for England. Each to their own thou!

P.S. mainly play cqb, and IMO the black loadouts stick out like xmas trees.

I have a lil dilemma however I should leave my gun original or paint it, suppose painting it will have to win at the end of the day.

 

[dan9416]

Mtp was designed as an all round cam they did test with it and it as better than Dpm in green environments and ddpm in the desert environments and it also means the army doesn't have to issue everyone with both types of kit.

But as for the black do it if you want to but as someone's mentioned try a darker grey as even in cqb the shadows aren't black.

Personally if your in a building firing out don't go any closer to the window than say a metre and move round it in an arc unlearnless they're looking into that window (just bad look) you'll be pretty well cammed in there.

 

[SheriffHD]

nothign wrong with all blacks, in all fairness, at the standard range of combat in airsoft, what camo you use makes not much differnce because it all blends pretty well so long as you pick a good spot (unless you have bright pink and white camo) Or unless you are in a ghilli suit.

Its all down to what you like to use, and if your team plays in the same colors, myself I normally play in black combats with a black vest and a whit tshirt and my iconic cuba baseball cap. unless Im playing with my squad then i go with our squad loadout which is fully multicam loadouts.

 

[two_zero]

nothign wrong with all blacks, in all fairness, at the standard range of combat in airsoft, what camo you use makes not much differnce because it all blends pretty well so long as you pick a good spot (unless you have bright pink and white camo) Or unless you are in a ghilli suit.
Its all down to what you like to use, and if your team plays in the same colors, myself I normally play in black combats with a black vest and a whit tshirt and my iconic cuba baseball cap. unless Im playing with my squad then i go with our squad loadout which is fully multicam loadouts.

I disagree, althou you rarely will be invisible in a cqb game (althou you can when there's bushes), black makes you stick out, if there's a group of 6 running thru a courtyard I bet the one in full black will get hit more than the 5 others in camo.

I can't imagine an environment where multicam would be a good camouflage. As I understand it, multicam was invented to save governments money thru just having to buy one kit. Next thing mechanics will only get a multitool Thou it is far superior to black.

 

[TheFull9]

MC was invented ages ago, long before it was ever adopted for issue to any military. Crye realised something long before everyone else, i.e. that just having a woodland and a desert pattern wasn't going to work in a lot of places, especially afghan. If you go somewhere like that wearing desert cam but then end up in the green stuff near a river you stick out something awful and blokes get shot more. Hence why there was a period just prior to the adoption of MTP where a lot of army infantry guys were having to dye their DDPM to blend in better because they didn't have any temperate CS95, the pictures are out there.

It doesn't work amazingly perfectly in the woods or out in the desert, but that's far preferable to sticking out like a shining beacon when you move in to a different type of terrain from the one you dressed for.

 

[dan9416]

Crye was used by sf units as far back as telic maybe further. So how are the guys meant to get dye in the desert? They'd paint them at most. Even that was a lot of effort for little reward. And if they're going to get shot at out there it doesn't really matter what they've got on as the ones doing the the shooting know where they are.

The Brits adopted the mtp after quite a lot of tests. We were either going to have the multi am or a digital pattern (which also works well in different environments) is was never just about saving money (although that was part of it). It's not just the kit you wear though it's how you move about. Running about there's not really much point wear any cam at all use a bit more stealth and you can get most places with out being seen.

If you get six blokes running across open ground if there's only one wearing black of course he's got to get shot more then the others if there all in the same type of kit as it stands out it different from the rest and the eye is drawn to that. It would be the same the other way round if there was one in cam and five in black.

 

[two_zero]

If you go somewhere like that wearing desert cam but then end up in the green stuff near a river you stick out something awful and blokes get shot more.

interesting point, never thought of that.

saying that I am getting less and less against desert camo use in UK as it really does not stick out that much.

Crye was used by sf units as far back as telic maybe further. So how are the guys meant to get dye in the desert? They'd paint them at most. Even that was a lot of effort for little reward. And if they're going to get shot at out there it doesn't really matter what they've got on as the ones doing the the shooting know where they are. The Brits adopted the mtp after quite a lot of tests. We were either going to have the multi am or a digital pattern (which also works well in different environments) is was never just about saving money (although that was part of it). It's not just the kit you wear though it's how you move about. Running about there's not really much point wear any cam at all use a bit more stealth and you can get most places with out being seen.

If you get six blokes running across open ground if there's only one wearing black of course he's got to get shot more then the others if there all in the same type of kit as it stands out it different from the rest and the eye is drawn to that. It would be the same the other way round if there was one in cam and five in black.

Nothing wrong with digital, m90 is blocks but superior in the intended environment. No pattern will blend in unless its designed for the spec spot you're in.

3 each and the black still get shot more, because it stands out more and your eye will find / register it faster. of course you wont be invisible when running, but in a bush the camo might go unnoticed for a while, the guy in black wont.

 

[dan9416]

Not saying there's anything wrong with digital I quite like it, but I was saying the army was going to buy one or the other. They did test on them both and found the mtp better in over different distances and environments. Now it may of been better it one or two distances/environments than the digital hence we got it.

Because black is one solid colour you will notice it first. If they were in pillar box red instead it would be the same.

To be fair it depend on the people looking. Last time I played I had mtp trousers but a blue jumper should of stood out but I got closer to where I needed to be by taking my time and being careful. If you know what your doing then it doesn't matter what you've got on (within reason)

And ghille suits well let's just say unless you've done the course don't bother cause you might as well put a flashing light over your head.

 

[TheFull9]

Crye was used by sf units as far back as telic maybe further.

Hence why I said "before it was ever adopted for issue" as in general issue to the whole military, I didn't intend to refer to SF who can obviously buy and wear whatever they like.

So how are the guys meant to get dye in the desert? They'd paint them at most. Even that was a lot of effort for little reward. And if they're going to get shot at out there it doesn't really matter what they've got on as the ones doing the the shooting know where they are.

Presumably through the mail system out there? As with all their other post? These items haven't been painted:

As you can see, DDPM dyed green.

 

[dan9416]

The pics aren't anywhere near to the adoption of mtp. That was a couple of years before the stuff was issued. And they would of done it prior to deploying. Not whilst out on deployment as being out on the ground they wouldn't have the time and with the dye the kit would have to be washed a few times so when they sweated the dye wouldn't run out and onto them.

 

[Ian_Gere]

I've got a '68 pattern DPM jacket that was dyed black when I got it direct from a surplus dealer. It had been in use at RAF Honiton, so I'm guessing it was a Regiment one that was used at night. It's not actually black, just very dark camo.

A note about dying cotton... you put the dye in water with a load of salt and it's fast after the 1st wash. You can also get dyes that go in the washer with the clothes and they're fast straight away. Anyway, who cares if you end up with a bit of green on your skin if wearing non colour fast greens helps stop you getting shot?

 

[TheFull9]

The pics aren't anywhere near to the adoption of mtp. That was a couple of years before the stuff was issued. And they would of done it prior to deploying. Not whilst out on deployment as being out on the ground they wouldn't have the time and with the dye the kit would have to be washed a few times so when they sweated the dye wouldn't run out and onto them.

The pics are from 09, MTP was out in afghan by '10 (see reference: http://www.strikehold.net/2010/05/21/new-m...in-afghanistan/ ), I wouldn't say that was 'nowhere near' personally but it depends on your definition I suppose.

My original point wasn't actually that they'd dyed it in the field (as you'll note if you read my original post) just that some guys had in fact dyed their DDPM at some point since it wasn't working in afghan. You posed the question as to where they'd gotten the dye from so I speculated in an attempt to answer, though I'm not sure why you asked me when it seems you already know the answer.

 

[dan9416]

I know when mtp was issued in afghan and you sent a link showing me a couple of pics to two good friends of mine. Now the pics you sent may of been published in 2009 but they weren't taken then as any infantry unit in theatre at that time would have acogs not the Susats.

Also as an army unit they're all issued cs95 green and desert (temperates were last issued in 2000) so they would have an issue of both. The only thing that's been changed is the Ubacs as theyre not issued in green ones.

If you got it from donning ton the only regiment it was from was the raf regt.

 

[Nutster]

Does it really matter who got what and when?

Yes the guys on the ground dyed their kit, be it in afghan or before they went.

And not everyone got the acogs, there are pics and video footage of patrols going out with a mix of susats and acogs.

Back to the topic of black kit please.

 

[Mickydoos]

MTP is essentially a jack of all trades.

I wear DDPM because its cheap and surprisingly effective in British woodland among ferns.

I also used it CQB because lack of light made the fact its tan coloured a non issue anyway.