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ICS L85 VS ICS GALIL
- Thread starter Willz248
- Start date
Airsoft-Ed
Retired Moderator
- Nov 7, 2010
- 4,164
- 941
It's a wonder the military rations aren't made at The Ritz at £150 a pop, considering how much the MoD love to spend loads on what is essentially no better than someone living on the street could make in half an hour, for 50p and a bag of chips.
But yeah, whether the L85 upgrades were done by British hands or not, they basically just ripped the guts out of a H&K 416 and chopped them up to fit into an L85, so the design is wholly German.
It gave us the most reliable bullpup service rifle in the world though ('cos there are soooooo many bullpup service rifles...), so who's going to fuss over it?
It is in essence just a bullpup 416 with different fire controls, I think I read that in testing, the only thing more reliable than it was an actual 416. Tested against the US standard M4/M16, the SCAR and obviously the 416. Results were 416 top, L85, SCAR and then the M4.
So it's pretty good.
But yeah, whether the L85 upgrades were done by British hands or not, they basically just ripped the guts out of a H&K 416 and chopped them up to fit into an L85, so the design is wholly German.
It gave us the most reliable bullpup service rifle in the world though ('cos there are soooooo many bullpup service rifles...), so who's going to fuss over it?
It is in essence just a bullpup 416 with different fire controls, I think I read that in testing, the only thing more reliable than it was an actual 416. Tested against the US standard M4/M16, the SCAR and obviously the 416. Results were 416 top, L85, SCAR and then the M4.
So it's pretty good.
Last edited by a moderator:
Wrong way round Ed, the 416 was H&K ripping the guts from an L85 and G36 and putting them into an M4-chassis.
In turn, the system from those came from Armalite/Sterling in the mid 1960s.
BAE / H&K's rebuild of the L85 - wasn't a rebuild. It's literally the same parts as the A1. Only the parts are made to better tolerances. H&K did not redesign anything. You open it up, and the internals will look exactly the same as the parts from Sterling's AR-180 - which is what Enfield based the SA80's gas parts on. Only now, the parts have H&K stamped on them. (And are painted a dull red when they leave the factory)
The only change, was what the parts (bolt, cocking handle, recoil/buffer springs, hammer, firing pin, extractor-assembly) were made from, and how they were made. When the SA80 was originally built, it was made by RSAF-Enfield staff who were (due to the impending privatisation and selling of RSAF) about to be made redundant and did not do their usual good job. Corners were cut, money was saved at the expense of doing a good job.
H&K were used because in 2001, they were (and still are) the only firearms manufacturer left in the UK, with operational factories. Had Sterling not gone bankrupt in the mid 1990s, they would have done the same job. Hell, had BAE not closed the RSAF after they bought it, they'd have probably done the job anyway.
In turn, the system from those came from Armalite/Sterling in the mid 1960s.
BAE / H&K's rebuild of the L85 - wasn't a rebuild. It's literally the same parts as the A1. Only the parts are made to better tolerances. H&K did not redesign anything. You open it up, and the internals will look exactly the same as the parts from Sterling's AR-180 - which is what Enfield based the SA80's gas parts on. Only now, the parts have H&K stamped on them. (And are painted a dull red when they leave the factory)
The only change, was what the parts (bolt, cocking handle, recoil/buffer springs, hammer, firing pin, extractor-assembly) were made from, and how they were made. When the SA80 was originally built, it was made by RSAF-Enfield staff who were (due to the impending privatisation and selling of RSAF) about to be made redundant and did not do their usual good job. Corners were cut, money was saved at the expense of doing a good job.
H&K were used because in 2001, they were (and still are) the only firearms manufacturer left in the UK, with operational factories. Had Sterling not gone bankrupt in the mid 1990s, they would have done the same job. Hell, had BAE not closed the RSAF after they bought it, they'd have probably done the job anyway.
M_P
Supporters
- Feb 27, 2011
- 7,272
- 1,404
Are accuracy international not based in the UK anymore? I thought they were based in Portsmouth?
They are, but with the kind of manufacturing technique they use, the A2 upgrade project would probably still be on-going into the year 2057...
They're a pretty small company, and they specialise in hand-made, high-tolerance, high-quality rifles. For example, the L115 rifles they did for the British Army - it took them 5 years to complete a contract for less than 30K rifles.
IIRC, in 2000/2001, they only made bolt-action rifles at the time - their experiment with semi-automatic rifles (ASW50) only started in the last 5-6 years, so I doubt the MoD would have asked them.
They're a pretty small company, and they specialise in hand-made, high-tolerance, high-quality rifles. For example, the L115 rifles they did for the British Army - it took them 5 years to complete a contract for less than 30K rifles.
IIRC, in 2000/2001, they only made bolt-action rifles at the time - their experiment with semi-automatic rifles (ASW50) only started in the last 5-6 years, so I doubt the MoD would have asked them.
ImTriggerHappy
Supporters
- Feb 25, 2015
- 5,374
- 2,228
Really just f*ckin REALLY
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Mos
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- Aug 23, 2015
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- 50
Although not a very good one in comparison to the older British rifle, the L1A1 SLR.Sooooo I chose the L85 which to add , is a British rifle
The L85 is said that sometimes a target would get up after being shot by an L85.
But with the SLR, one would not get up after being shot with such.
Still, I think the l85 looks cool. And is probably my favourite looking weapon.
ImTriggerHappy
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- Feb 25, 2015
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- 2,228
Mos
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- Aug 23, 2015
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jcheeseright
Supporters
- Jun 14, 2012
- 4,280
- 2,261
And that you're talking absolute shit. The SA80 (L85) is a superior weapon to the SLR in almost every way.
5.56 has plenty of stopping power, if you doubt that to be a fact I suggest you get someone to shoot you with it and see if you feel like getting up afterwards.
5.56 has plenty of stopping power, if you doubt that to be a fact I suggest you get someone to shoot you with it and see if you feel like getting up afterwards.
Mos
Members
- Aug 23, 2015
- 566
- 50
chill out..
pretty sure I'm not talking 'absolute sh*t'.
I'm sure the current SA80 can take someone down, just there have been scenes where they have got up. Though with the SLR not as frequent someone gets up.
Also, I sadly decline the kind offer of setting up someone to shoot me. I figured I'd probably die - either from blood loss, brain damage or major organ failure. To me, I couldn't take your recommendation.
Thank you,
pretty sure I'm not talking 'absolute sh*t'.
I'm sure the current SA80 can take someone down, just there have been scenes where they have got up. Though with the SLR not as frequent someone gets up.
Also, I sadly decline the kind offer of setting up someone to shoot me. I figured I'd probably die - either from blood loss, brain damage or major organ failure. To me, I couldn't take your recommendation.
Thank you,
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