How I'm understanding UKARA

[Tommikka]

Just a reference to a few of the posts on paintball and RIFs

I have meant to quote them, but will do a quickie.  I wrote a bit about this on one of my first posts to the forum

Paintball is not VCRA exempt, contrary to the belief of many who kept their heads in the sand

Pre VCRA the airsoft community got involved with the Home Office during the work on the bill

In paintball we had the one man band of the UKPSF (Steve Bull) who has spent much time with the home office standing the corner for paintball.  His UKPSF was the original European federation, and he spun off as U.K. dedicated when the European federation gained traction

At the time paintball was (and still is) primarily punter paintball, but with strong walkon, scenario event crowds and a rising tournament structure.  There was a small Milsim community, they played the style using normal paintball guns - usually Tippmanns and there were one or two individuals custom building true replicas

There were emerging manufactures such as RAP4 using the paintball type guns they had made for police training, and mostly converting to recreational legal velocities

Paintball and the VCRA was not going to be a battle that could be won

(I bought my Chinese army tacamo ak47 paintball training gun at that time from a bloke called 007 in lidls car park ---- before tacamo were building and marketing for recreational use in the us.  Just in time for pre VCRA possession) ......

 

[Tommikka]

Following on a few years and there are many more RIF like guns, with the pathetic argument that it doesn't look real because there's a hopper on it, which fails the VCRA test that if anyone thinks it is a RIF and it's not in the specified two tone colour ranges then it is a rif

Add mag fed paintball guns, with an extremely vocal magfed community with infighting of two key magfed factions and anti tournament attitudes then things get very public and visible for years

the paintball retailers went to the UKPSF for new home office consultation ......

cue extra in-fighting for 'exposing' rifs

 

[Andyraven]

There are other schemes than the UKARA

For your £30 per year - Are you incurring other expenses for taking part in recreations, (period clothing, subs to your society etc - is your £30 the overarching 'recreationists' membership, insurance etc, and did you sign up for your £30 when you started the first time you tried it?

its no more then most Airsoft players spend on there equipment and clothing. plus i can use my Repro stuff for Airsoft aswell. also I can get items cheaper because of being part of a reenactment group. my memebership covers VCRA and i have a public liability insurance that covers me. unlike Airsoft/paintball sites that cover them. and no it was the second time as i wanted to be able to fire blank firing guns and contribute to the mock battles we have.

 

[Tommikka]

In the preceding years RAP4UK had been formed making a UK retailer for RAP4 and taking the risk away from the importing customer

They invented their own scheme at a later date due to a fact finding visit by the association of chief constables

RAP4UK were abused by parts of the community until they explained the visit and that they had been told by the chief constables that virtually every single paintball gun called be called a rif - 'you better think up a scheme of some kind in case we come back officially'

 

[Tommikka]

The now better resourced UKPSF spoke to the home office and ended up with two possible outcomes if a vcra based case occurred :

1) maybe a court will decide the vcra does not apply based on the firearms act and a combination of air weapon and frangible paintballs

2) maybe a cour will decide that vcra does apply and a scheme would be required, ukpsf membership might support that 

Both are untested answers, ditto the old RAP4UK scheme.

But it currently gives paintball retailers & ukpsf a reasonable defence that they have down their bit 

 

[Andyraven]

The now better resourced UKPSF spoke to the home office and ended up with two possible outcomes if a vcra based case occurred :

1) maybe a court will decide the vcra does not apply based on the firearms act and a combination of air weapon and frangible paintballs

2) maybe a cour will decide that vcra does apply and a scheme would be required, ukpsf membership might support that 

Both are untested answers, ditto the old RAP4UK scheme.

But it currently gives paintball retailers & ukpsf a reasonable defence that they have down their bit 

i think Airsoft and painball should come together and help each other out alot me.

if i used paintball BBs would that make my airsoft gun comply with 1). ?

 

[sokar666]

its no more then most Airsoft players spend on there equipment and clothing. plus i can use my Repro stuff for Airsoft aswell. also I can get items cheaper because of being part of a reenactment group. my memebership covers VCRA and i have a public liability insurance that covers me. unlike Airsoft/paintball sites that cover them. and no it was the second time as i wanted to be able to fire blank firing guns and contribute to the mock battles we have.

Your personal liablity insurance would really not count for much, you have decided to go to airsoft field.  You have to sign a waver anyway that you are aware of the dangers and all responsibilities.  They won't even let you on without signing.  Additionally if you were to injure yourself while playing airsoft how is that the sites fault, so again why would you need personal insurance.  Just seems to me that you want everything without taking any responsibility.

 

[Sacarathe]

Its pretty bad seeing as you have to spend upto or over £150 just to get a UKARA Number. Just seems to be a money making scam. Thats why i use my reenactment license (shooters Rights Association) which is basically the same as a UKARA. But it only cost me £30 a year. The only thing i havn't done with it is order from overseas, but im sure i can without too much hassle.

Last I checked 3 games of airsoft is usually 60-90, not £150. No one forces you to rent.

 

[Andyraven]

Your personal liablity insurance would really not count for much, you have decided to go to airsoft field.  You have to sign a waver anyway that you are aware of the dangers and all responsibilities.  They won't even let you on without signing.  Additionally if you were to injure yourself while playing airsoft how is that the sites fault, so again why would you need personal insurance.  Just seems to me that you want everything without taking any responsibility.

Accidents happen and i would like to be safe then sorry. it covers me if i hurt someone by accident aswell.

 

[Andyraven]

Last I checked 3 games of airsoft is usually 60-90, not £150. No one forces you to rent.

 .. no no one does but its the easiest way for you to get a UKARA and where i live my local charges £50 for a hire day.

 

[djben9]

 .. no no one does but its the easiest way for you to get a UKARA and where i live my local charges £50 for a hire day.

my 3 games were expensive ...so will mess up your maths!

Game 1 = £50 (£25 walk on fee / £25 rent)

Game 2 = £50 (£25 walk on fee / £25 rent, and only half day)

Game 3 = £427! inc £25 walk on

game 3 was day the AEG arrived with extra mags and walk on fee  haha

 

[Andyraven]

my 3 games were expensive ...so will mess up your maths!

Game 1 = £50 (£25 walk on fee / £25 rent)

Game 2 = £50 (£25 walk on fee / £25 rent, and only half day)

Game 3 = £427! inc £25 walk on

game 3 was day the AEG arrived with extra mags and walk on fee  haha

urban assault! ^_^  shame its going........ fecking housing developments ruin everything nice

 

[Tommikka]

my 3 games were expensive ...so will mess up your maths!

Game 1 = £50 (£25 walk on fee / £25 rent)

Game 2 = £50 (£25 walk on fee / £25 rent, and only half day)

Game 3 = £427! inc £25 walk on

game 3 was day the AEG arrived with extra mags and walk on fee  haha

I won't tell you what it cost me when my paintball team took the option of a sponsorship discount on the latest gun (Good discount on a £1000 gun) which i opted out of because 'I don't need another gun' 

Which was followed by them taking delivery at a Christmas event and all waving shiney new toys in my face

So I 'had' to buy one, but kept putting it off as I would need the very > £1000 special edition which had a vast waiting list. Until I receive the phone call ... I'm in the importers warehouse and they have one.

I didn't spend £1000 or over £1000 in that phone conversation. Lots of hundreds and way over £427 

And I'm the old school lover of the team with the cabinet full of bargains 

 

[djben9]

urban assault! ^_^  shame its going........ fecking housing developments ruin everything nice

yep, they do

still no exact date yet though....so trying to get there again soon!

not sure then where to go thats a nice urban site within 90mns??

 

[sokar666]

Accidents happen and i would like to be safe then sorry. it covers me if i hurt someone by accident aswell.

Just seems like your paying for something you don't need.  The worst injuries i have ever seen is a dislocated finger, a few sprained ankles and hundreds and thousands of red welts from bb impact, part and parcel of the sport.

Public liability insurance is designed for professionals who interact with customers or members of the public. It protects against claims of personal injury or property damage that a third party suffers (or claims to have suffered) as a result of your business activities.

If you accidentally hurt someone at a skirmish by making them trip for example i can pretty much guarantee they won't blame you, accidents happen.  Airsoft is built on honesty, apologise, shake hands, move on.

 

[sokar666]

yep, they do

still no exact date yet though....so trying to get there again soon!

not sure then where to go thats a nice urban site within 90mns??

Your kidding, i was planning on finally going there this year, it's on my airsoft bucket list so to speak.

 

[djben9]

nope, it was in AI, closing this year after 10 years .....

not sure when but im hoping to go again 29th April......

slightly off topic so we should reconvene here

https://airsoft-forums.uk/index.php?/topic/33939-urban-assault-raf-upwood-afuk-players-meet-topic/

 

[Andyraven]

Just seems like your paying for something you don't need.  The worst injuries i have ever seen is a dislocated finger, a few sprained ankles and hundreds and thousands of red welts from bb impact, part and parcel of the sport.

Public liability insurance is designed for professionals who interact with customers or members of the public. It protects against claims of personal injury or property damage that a third party suffers (or claims to have suffered) as a result of your business activities.

If you accidentally hurt someone at a skirmish by making them trip for example i can pretty much guarantee they won't blame you, accidents happen.  Airsoft is built on honesty, apologise, shake hands, move on.

would rather not take the chance. you don't stop paying home insurance becuase your house hasn't burnt down yet (if ever).

Yeah Airsoft is built on honesty, but that doesn't stop players not calling there hits. why would it stop an accident. you cant trust everyone in life. plus its needed for reenactment purposes.

 

[Andyraven]

nope, it was in AI, closing this year after 10 years .....

not sure when but im hoping to go again 29th April......

slightly off topic so we should reconvene here

https://airsoft-forums.uk/index.php?/topic/33939-urban-assault-raf-upwood-afuk-players-meet-topic/

i was looking into seeing if i could buy/rent The Grange (PE28 2BZ) before it was sold to housing developers.

 

[sokar666]

would rather not take the chance. you don't stop paying home insurance becuase your house hasn't burnt down yet (if ever).

Yeah Airsoft is built on honesty, but that doesn't stop players not calling there hits. why would it stop an accident. you cant trust everyone in life. plus its needed for reenactment purposes.

What are you taking a chance on, a bruised hip from a bb hit, a sprained ankle, what do you think happens.  The only serious injury you could ever incure is loss of sight. that's the reason we were eye protection.  You will never sustain an injury serious enough that you have to pay for your own insurance.  I've got more chance of being injured or killed on the journey to and from a skirmish than i ever will playing airsoft.

It might be needed for reenactment but not for airsoft.  You are not gonna get sued from someone not calling hits, that's a ridiculous claim.  If you can't trust your fellow airsofters then why even go.

Unfortunately you are fighting a losing battle, apart from some minor niggles people have with fps limits and bang rules for example, everyone likes the way things are as it works through policing ourselves.