UKARA license enquiry

[Cannonfodder]

It was a preference thing as most reenactment groups have their own insurance, and the annual fee was £10. (At the time I had it, which was about 10 years ago ?)

Fair enough, but my point was that if the OP can't be arsed to attend 3 airsoft games they probably won't want to join a reenactment group either

 

[BigAl]

It's bizarre that you can't buy a BB gun without a valid defence, but you can buy an identical and more powerful 4.5mm air gun as long as you're over 18 and have ID.

This is because airguns where already covered under existing firearms law when the VCRB was written.  UK firearms law is a disjointed mess and needs totally overhauling.   However if they ever get round to it it will be bad news for some shooting sports.  Every Airsofter, Paintballer, Air Gunner Shotgunner, Rifle Shooter and Pistol Shooter should get together and join organizations and fight every proposed law, not just the ones that affect them.  Otherwise one day al we'll have left is Fortnight!

 

[Tommikka]

Correct.

I might be wrong but I always understood it was selling, import or manufacture that was an offence without a specific defence.

So in a sale of a RIF to someone without eg. a UKARA registration, it is the seller that is committing the offence, not the buyer.  The buyer would only be committing an offence if they attempt to import a RIF into the UK without a defence.

Correct and edited to fix

….. to be fair to me, I had spent 4 hours moving tables to set up a comicon the evening before then got up at 5am to drive back there then posted  ….. I’m impressed that the rest made sense

It's bizarre that you can't buy a BB gun without a valid defence, but you can buy an identical and more powerful 4.5mm air gun as long as you're over 18 and have ID.

You can buy a BB gun without a defence ….. but it would be >50% brightly coloured or one of the other criteria of an IF

 

[Colin Allen]

Correct and edited to fix

….. to be fair to me, I had spent 4 hours moving tables to set up a comicon the evening before then got up at 5am to drive back there then posted  ….. I’m impressed that the rest made sense

Ouch!  That is a tough shift; been there, done that.

 

[Tommikka]

On the subject of Firearms Certificates and RIFs… there was a story going round not long after the VCRA came in to play about a couple of Police Firearms Officers who visited an airsoft shop.  They wanted to buy a pistol to mount on a plaque as a gift for someone who was retiring.  They were apparently very shocked to be told the shop couldn’t sell them a RIF, despite them standing there with their real Glocks holstered, because they didn’t have a valid defence.

Not sure how true it was and of course they could have been doing some ‘mystery shopping’ in a bid to catch the shop out over the new law.

….. actually ….. though being qualified firearms officers doesn’t give a defence, they did / do have one potential route to a defence:



section 37.2(f):

the purposes of functions that a person has in his capacity as a person in the service of Her Majesty

But, giving a leaving present isn’t a purpose in service of Her (or his) majesty

There are potential concepts for the use of airsoft type guns by firearms officers, such as a familiariasion copy - but they are better off using the real thing in a safe manner

Even if an airsoft gun is of use (or a non functioning replica) it would not need to be realistically coloured as a RIF but can happily be a coloured IF ….. and any non real steel use they make of something would be better off with a coloured IF 

The perfect solution for a display item is a deactivated firearm - but you need the right paperwork

You could however make a trip to my local auction

They have had two mounted sets (or the same one that was sold a few months ago returned for sale again last week)

These have been moulded pieces though, with only half of the body

So as a RIF is something that would be indistinguishable from reality - if you have half shells stuck to a piece of wood are they RIFs?

View attachment 139750

 

[BigAl]

Yes as the public could reasonably believe they are.  Dumb I know but pretty sure that's the case.

 

[Anonymoose]

The perfect solution for a display item is a deactivated firearm - but you need the right paperwork.

A 4.5mm air gun is an easier solution.

Walk in, show ID, buy. No paperwork.

Especially if they wanted something like a Glock that's easy to find in 4.5mm.

 

[TrooperX]

There are potential concepts for the use of airsoft type guns by firearms officers, such as a familiariasion copy - but they are better off using the real thing in a safe manner

True story… a few years ago a policeman who used to go to the same airsoft site as me borrowed my JG G36C.  His mate was applying for the armed section and they used it to practice drills.

 

[Tommikka]

True story… a few years ago a policeman who used to go to the same airsoft site as me borrowed my JG G36C.  His mate was applying for the armed section and they used it to practice drills.

As applying they wouldn’t have access to the real thing …. So a good use for some practice - but no need for it to be a RIF, the colour doesn’t affect the function 

 

[TrooperX]

As applying they wouldn’t have access to the real thing …. So a good use for some practice - but no need for it to be a RIF, the colour doesn’t affect the function 

This was before VCRA days so no pesky two tones to worry about back then ?.  I think I had one of the first JG G36s in the country.  I imported it from Gunners if anyone remembers them.

 

[Tommikka]

Yes as the public could reasonably believe they are.  Dumb I know but pretty sure that's the case.

Someone could look towards it and believe it’s a real firearm up on the wall.

But, as defined in section 38:


38Meaning of “realistic imitation firearm”


(1)In sections 36 and 37 “realistic imitation firearm” means an imitation firearm which—

(a)has an appearance that is so realistic as to make it indistinguishable, for all practical purposes, from a real firearm; and

(b)is neither a de-activated firearm nor itself an antique.

(2)For the purposes of this section, an imitation firearm is not (except by virtue of subsection (3)(b)) to be regarded as distinguishable from a real firearm for any practical purpose if it could be so distinguished only—

(a)by an expert;

(b)on a close examination; or

(c)as a result of an attempt to load or to fire it.

Someone could easily believe and report a moulded half dummy shell, but then (in my opinion not tested in court) it wouldn’t be ‘for all practical purposes’ ‘so realistic’ that it was ‘indistinguishable’ , and would not require ‘an expert’ to notice.  ‘Close inspection’ could be interpreted, but I would differ ‘being a bit closer’ to ‘close examination’

A case would be required to interpret those key points if the circumstances came up - but another argument for the defence would be the title of the legislation - Violent Crime Reduction Act’

The intent of the legislation is to reduce violent crime, RIFs fall into the act with their potential to be used in a manner of threatening violence  - so a lawyer would be expected to highlight the matter of their client waving a wooden panel around.

An Act to make provision for reducing and dealing with the abuse of alcohol; to make provision about real and imitation firearms, about ammunition and about knives and other weapons; to amend the Football Spectators Act 1989 and the Football (Disorder) Act 2000; to amend the Sexual Offences Act 2003 and section 8 of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998; to amend section 23 of the Children and Young Persons Act 1969; to amend the Mobile Telephones (Re-programming) Act 2002; and for connected purposes.

 

[Cannonfodder]

If a police force were to purchase airsoft guns for training wouldn't they deliberately buy 2 tones to make sure they couldn't be mistaken for the real thing?

 

[Tommikka]

If a police force were to purchase airsoft guns for training wouldn't they deliberately buy 2 tones to make sure they couldn't be mistaken for the real thing?

Yes.

They would be eligible for a VCRA Defence to purchase RIFs, but that wouldn’t really suit their needs, making sense that bright two tones would stand out as trainers