Hop...

[ButcherBill]

I'll start with an apology... I'm 100% certain there is at least one other thread asking the same question & I'm 100% certain I've either started it or commented in it but for the life of me I can't find it.

My situation is... I usually use .2's in all my toys but I know the fps & j's of nearly all of my toys and have the one's I'm likely to use in a game recorded on my phone so I can easliy check while at the signal black hole that is my local site. I've crono'd them & rounded them down to the nearest fps/j so they don't go above site limits but...

If I adjust my hop with each one so it fires straightest for longest with the bb weight as in my little pic it won't push any toys over the site limit will it?

This always confuses me, I'm pretty sure adjusting the hop for certain bb's will improve performance to a degree but a pew (my mk18 mod1 for example) crono'd on .2's resulting in 1.09j & 305fps won't suddenly jump over the sites 350fps if I use .3's with hop adjusted accordingly?

fyi, I won't be swopping out hop rubbers, barrels etc as it's not something I'm comfortable doing when I can simply use another toy.

View attachment 143082

 

[EvilMonkee]

Firstly, stop using .2s.  You will get much better range and performance with a heavier BB.  Hop applied will affect FPS downward.

Secondly, what you are referring to is Joule creep with a heavier BB.  It will retain more of its energy (cos physics and stuff) and therefore maybe result in a creep up in power.  Now, this is usually more of a GBBR problem than an AEG one but if you do change weight of BB be sure to rechrono your gun so that the new weight of ammo comes in under the Joules limit.  This is why Joules are better than using FPS as its frankly too much of a ballache to try to figure out if my .3 is doing the correct FPS compared to a .2 out of the same rifle.  

So, simply, put heavier ammo in, read the Joules score, if its under the site limit you are golden.  If not, well then a test and adjust is needed.  

 

[ButcherBill]

I'll be cronoing them with the heavier bb's anyway before I use them in game.

 

[Cannonfodder]

Definitely switch to heavier bbs if you're playing outdoors, the lightest I'd go is .28g. Leave the. 2s for CQB where IMO they're a better choice 

Joule creep is definitely a thing, although it affects gas guns (especially nbb) more than AEGs or springers. For AEGs I wouldn't be worried if they're not already close to site limits but for gas guns I'd be wanting to be a little more cautious.  

Unfortunately the only way to be 100% sure is to try it

 

[Skara]

Piston mass has an impact on JC too.

I run pretty heavy piston assemblies in my guns (even in DSGs) and the increment in energy when running 0.3/0.32s, especially when applying hop, is enough to get laughed at when I chrono at tournaments..

on 0.2s, with hop off (as per rule set) all my guns chrono at roughly 0.75/0.8J, but then on "game setup" I'm pretty damn close to the 1J limit I have, sometimes even too close... But hey, rules are rules huh?

Also yes it's pointless to use 0.2s even indoors, 0.25 is the absolute lightest I use, with 0.28/0.30/0.32 being the most common bb weight I run. Better trajectory, better effective range, less spread way over there.

 

[Rogerborg]

I run pretty heavy piston assemblies in my guns (even in DSGs)

<but-why.gif>

True though, and Novritch has a video (which currently escapes my search skills) where he demonstrated that by building a short-barrelled sniper with a heavy piston wrapped in wire that crept to a crazy degree when fed heavier BBs.

The indoor sites that I play at with a 0.25g limit still put 0.2g BBs into our mags for chronoing. I mean... why?  Ancient habits?  Put in 0.25g, eat that extra 20p cost for the entire chrono session.

 

[ButcherBill]

To bring this thread back from the dead...

I now adjust the hop so the bb's fly straight, watched a YT video to see other peoples impressions of the URG-I I've just bought and the 'online talent' adjusted the hop to the point he got the best fps, now I'm confused as hell... is the point where the hop is best at the 'straightest' or the 'highest fps' or are they basically the same thing?

I will be checking on Sunday... just thought I'd ask AGAIN.

 

[Lyndication]

I run gas, so I set the hop to just slightly overhop at the end, then tweak the NPAS to the right power. Then pick a distance and zero my sights to it.

 

[Austeyr]

To bring this thread back from the dead...

I now adjust the hop so the bb's fly straight, watched a YT video to see other peoples impressions of the URG-I I've just bought and the 'online talent' adjusted the hop to the point he got the best fps, now I'm confused as hell... is the point where the hop is best at the 'straightest' or the 'highest fps' or are they basically the same thing?

I will be checking on Sunday... just thought I'd ask AGAIN.

Wait, you’re meant to actually shoot straight…? 
 

laughs in 7000 rounds

 

[Quagmire]

Just adjust hop to get best flight, there's no point in dialling it for max FPS as you're likely to either have BB's dropping or flying up into space.

 

[Anonymoose]

Wait, you’re meant to actually shoot straight…? 
 

laughs in 7000 rounds

Wait, you're meant to actually look where you're shooting?

Laughs in blind-fire

(For best results, shout "Get some!" while shooting.)

 

[Austeyr]

Wait, you're meant to actually look where you're shooting?

Laughs in blind-fire

(For best results, shout "Get some!" while shooting.)

Every shot I take is a blind fire thanks to fogging ?

 

[Impulse]

Wait, you’re meant to actually shoot straight…? 
 

laughs in 7000 rounds

looks at 20rd and 35rd GBBR mags, then at 10rd and 25rd gas bolt action mags

We live in different worlds, you and I... Different worlds entirely ?

 

[Lyndication]

We get to savour every shot ?

 

[Colin Allen]

We get to savour every shot ?

And then get hosed by a rental.

 

[Lyndication]

I mean no one can beat a rental. They're unburdened by neither equipment nor experience, their blood hot from wearing a thick, black hoodie in high summer. BBs dare not touch them.

 

[Cannonfodder]

I mean no one can beat a rental. They're unburdened by neither equipment nor experience, their blood hot from wearing a thick, black hoodie in high summer. BBs dare not touch them.

Don't forget the can of monster between each game 

 

[Rogerborg]

the 'online talent' adjusted the hop to the point he got the best fps

That's like adjusting the spring to get the straightest flight.

Always* adjust hop to get straight flight.

* The caveat being that applying more hop to lift heavier BBs is likely to reduce the muzzle energy a bit. If, and only if, the muzzle energy (calculated in Joules) drops dramatically, you might want to under-hop a bit, and lob BBs at longer ranges.  But we're talking serious drops - I've run guns down to 0.8J while lifting 0.32g BBs, without being disadvantaged compared to running the same gun at 1.1J with 0.2g, due to the magic of square-cube science.

 

[Lyndication]

To be honest FPS chasing is a bit silly, but especially if you have to gimp your hop to get a few more FPS.

A gun that's consistent at 1J will be better than a gun that can push 1.2J but the hop is inconsistent.

 

[mirinjawbro]

back when i started airsoft  (2001 was my first gun) everything was .20g and maybe .25g

what changed?