Has any imported a guy from Asia?
- Thread starter toanjuice
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Ian_Gere
Retired Moderator
- Apr 1, 2012
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Yeah, I used to know a guy that imported himself from Asia - 'kin useless! He was supposed to be a manager - it's an oldie but a goody because I honestly believe he would have had difficulty organising a piss-up in a brewery (and this had nothing to do with a language barrier - he is from Singapore so grew up with English as a spoken & written language).
I once had to bollock him severely because, for the 2nd time mind you, his talk and lack of action had left me in a position where my rep couldn't but suffer, but, unlike the 1st time, I couldn't rescue the situation by the skin of my teeth by working 72hrs straight (i sh!t you not 1 whit - and the stimulants were legal too so it was even harder
). Anyhoo, he just stood there as a detailed his shortcomings, his silence annoying me more and more as I went on, until I was proper yelling at him and not far from punching him...
Turns out that it's a culture thing. I was approx 10yrs his senior, so as far as he was concerned, since he had put his name to the project, whatever I said was golden. I did not consider myself 'the leader', merely 1 of 3 of the more able of maybe 20 ppl, all of whose views not only ought to be heard for the sake of democracy, but also were generally considered as bankable intellectual capital. So when I voiced ideas, sort of to see if they were feasible, as well as to get a creative discussion going, brainstorm stylee, he would not say anything which to him would feel like contradiction and that attitude also extended to a lesser extent to the other older team members and anyone who seemed to be acting as 'a lieutenant' of the seniors...
Also his attitude towards problem solving was completely different to mine: at the end of what I considered discussion workshops, but he considered something more like briefings, if what had been agreed as a reasonable and achievable goal included things which he did not know how to go about doing or felt he needed help with, he expected his peers in the pecking order to rally round and figure it out, just as he also expected his 'subordinates' to rally round and figure out how to implement any instructions he gave them (because his degree of wisdom would inform his understanding of what those subordinates ought to be able to suss out... and crucially, my wisdom must have informed my delegation of tasks, thus he and his peers between them must, beyond his understanding, have the skills needed to carry out their 'instructions'...).
Of course, when I have a brainstorming session with people, I expect anyone who has a viewpoint, preference, or objection, to get their two pen'orth in; also of course, there is a social cost to expressing unpopular or naive opinions, but that's life - if you're not prepared for 40°+C, remove the white jacket and melt away... but here's the nub of the issue, to an Asian mindset, a failure by a leader is at least as much, if not more, the fault of his subordinates (and sadly male chauvinism is involved, but let's have it right, it's still not absent from our western mindset either, even that of western women), but failure and the fear of it are shameful, not to be admitted to or discussed in front of 'subordinates'. My failure, in his mind, was in not arranging the circumstances where he could inform me that my expectations could not be met unless I could explain how to him, or find or delegate somebody to mentor him through the necessary tasks, since I would obviously not discuss my inabilities with him, my 'subordinate'.
To be perfectly honest, for a long while after this episode I laboured under a prejudice against Asian men, although it was pretty much subconscious, but then again, I did not have the understanding of what had actually occurred that I do now. It wasn't until I studied management theory briefly that the scales were lifted from my eyes; in that piph moment I felt as stupid as if I had been walking around with rotting dead fish strapped to my face.
So, ladies and gentlemen, jaded and lentil-men, my advice is that if you wish to import an Asian Guy, learn from my mistakes and you could do worse than read Fons Trompenaars on management
- feel free to get back strictly on topic...
I once had to bollock him severely because, for the 2nd time mind you, his talk and lack of action had left me in a position where my rep couldn't but suffer, but, unlike the 1st time, I couldn't rescue the situation by the skin of my teeth by working 72hrs straight (i sh!t you not 1 whit - and the stimulants were legal too so it was even harder
). Anyhoo, he just stood there as a detailed his shortcomings, his silence annoying me more and more as I went on, until I was proper yelling at him and not far from punching him...Turns out that it's a culture thing. I was approx 10yrs his senior, so as far as he was concerned, since he had put his name to the project, whatever I said was golden. I did not consider myself 'the leader', merely 1 of 3 of the more able of maybe 20 ppl, all of whose views not only ought to be heard for the sake of democracy, but also were generally considered as bankable intellectual capital. So when I voiced ideas, sort of to see if they were feasible, as well as to get a creative discussion going, brainstorm stylee, he would not say anything which to him would feel like contradiction and that attitude also extended to a lesser extent to the other older team members and anyone who seemed to be acting as 'a lieutenant' of the seniors...
Also his attitude towards problem solving was completely different to mine: at the end of what I considered discussion workshops, but he considered something more like briefings, if what had been agreed as a reasonable and achievable goal included things which he did not know how to go about doing or felt he needed help with, he expected his peers in the pecking order to rally round and figure it out, just as he also expected his 'subordinates' to rally round and figure out how to implement any instructions he gave them (because his degree of wisdom would inform his understanding of what those subordinates ought to be able to suss out... and crucially, my wisdom must have informed my delegation of tasks, thus he and his peers between them must, beyond his understanding, have the skills needed to carry out their 'instructions'...).
Of course, when I have a brainstorming session with people, I expect anyone who has a viewpoint, preference, or objection, to get their two pen'orth in; also of course, there is a social cost to expressing unpopular or naive opinions, but that's life - if you're not prepared for 40°+C, remove the white jacket and melt away... but here's the nub of the issue, to an Asian mindset, a failure by a leader is at least as much, if not more, the fault of his subordinates (and sadly male chauvinism is involved, but let's have it right, it's still not absent from our western mindset either, even that of western women), but failure and the fear of it are shameful, not to be admitted to or discussed in front of 'subordinates'. My failure, in his mind, was in not arranging the circumstances where he could inform me that my expectations could not be met unless I could explain how to him, or find or delegate somebody to mentor him through the necessary tasks, since I would obviously not discuss my inabilities with him, my 'subordinate'.
To be perfectly honest, for a long while after this episode I laboured under a prejudice against Asian men, although it was pretty much subconscious, but then again, I did not have the understanding of what had actually occurred that I do now. It wasn't until I studied management theory briefly that the scales were lifted from my eyes; in that piph moment I felt as stupid as if I had been walking around with rotting dead fish strapped to my face.
So, ladies and gentlemen, jaded and lentil-men, my advice is that if you wish to import an Asian Guy, learn from my mistakes and you could do worse than read Fons Trompenaars on management
- feel free to get back strictly on topic...
Ian_Gere
Retired Moderator
- Apr 1, 2012
- 6,417
- 2,050
Oh everyone can be frustrating, I reckon anyway... Where were you brought up?
My erstwhile 同輩 / 見習い / 同行 / 学徒制度 (I hope this helps but it's google translate so who knows lol!?!) no doubt found my 'unreasonable' expectations, 'insufficient' care, and 'unfair' public shaming of him, "frustrating" to say the least (there were 2 people of his age present when I yelled at him (for about 5mins continuously
oops!) 1 of whom was female, and an older woman also). If i had to do the same project again, with the same people, I would make time everyday for him to check in with me, because I now realise that simply implying that everyone speak their mind is not enough and, even if I were prepared to deliberately take on the 師表 / 模范 role and responsibility and instruct him to speak his mind in open discussion, he could no more overcome his good Asian upbringing at age 23 than I could have overcome my lack of good western parenting at the same age.
Pointman PUG
Members
- Nov 19, 2012
- 140
- 8
Ahhh,missed that first time around scooby....to busy laughing my arse off!!!
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