G&G Fire Hawk / FireHawk HC05 DSG

[Steveocee]

What an epic read and massive amount of work that you out into this. Great read and great write up in each step.

 

[Druid799]

The duck does do good reviews .?

 

[Sitting Duck]

Thanks for posting. I didn't realise the DSG version has no semi auto function. I'd got a dsg g&g gearbox off ebay and thought I had an issue with my selector switch. 

Your post saved me some time. Cheers! 

What an epic read and massive amount of work that you out into this. Great read and great write up in each step.

The only correction to all that crap is try NOT to buy a Big Dragon M160 motor

Yes it is fast as f*ck but draws way too much - it is a cheap fast high speed motor

I'd say a smidge quicker than SHS High Speed - again try to avoid High Speed Motors

(they drain you battery very quickly and generate more heat)

The Big Dragon I originally thought was the dogz nutz but eventually too much heat long term

will lead to bearings in motor armature itself crapping out (trust me)

A "balanced" 27~30k motor like along the lines of SHS HT - but I've been away a while so unsure on any new stuff

but around that spec

Still think DSG's are over-rated, most long term box fiddlers might agree with this

but new comers are often blinded by high ROF is everything and must get/build one - naaaahhhhhh

13:1 gears, Short Stroke if you wish & balanced motor will get you into the twenties which is plenty on 7.4v 25c

(unless you are over compensating for crap shooting ability like I was/am)

Just a quick note in case people thinking of buying the awesome BD M160 - maybe not

it will crap out due to ultra high speed and heat generated and you will need extra batteries (trust me)

A more sensible motor will run cooler, draw less amps and last longer (if done properly)

and when paired with a 13:1 gear set will produce same results as dumping a HS motor in reg box

but Amps/Watts will be much lower and battery/box will last longer than a reg box with M160 motor

Another thing is that ORIGINALLY G&G DID make a DSG with cut off lever cams

though this was a limited production run way before HC05 was made

maybe they had to pull it for copyright issues with Seigetek so pulled the 3mm axle with cams

then made a 5mm axle no semi cam DSG - yeah WTF ???

see here on an old Amazon Japan site pic shows the 3mm axle and cut off cams....

This was probably the gear set option showcased by G&G at the 2015 Shot Show with 3mm axle & COL cams

Alas the HC05 went into production with crappy 5mm axle & no semi DSG gear - absolutely stupid idea

So yeah - avoid the G&G HC05 & perhaps a QUICK UPDATE - lol on the M160 motor is way too quick

(just in case you think of getting one of those bad bot motors as they really are quick - ergh too quick & warm running)

Just a quick update, mainly in case people are thinking of buying the M160 motor - old review of mine

and my choice today would be a 30k not 45k motor

(ultra high speed & heat is not the be all & end all I have learnt the hard way)

Edit - pasted the SHS DSG on Amazon instead of the old G&G one - doooh my bad

removed the SHS link & updated....

G&G did originally make a 3mm axle DSG gear with COL cams

(probably showcased in 2015 but likely pulled due to copyright issues)

So they made the poxy 5mm axle no semi gear instead - stupid doesn't even cover it

see here G&G's Riot rip-off clone DSG with 3mm axles & COL cams no longer made

if only they had put this in or come to an agreement with Riot/SHS or something the HC05 would have had semi

https://www.amazon.co.jp/ARMAMENT-G-10-102-Double-Sector-Gear/dp/B007JQGHPK

 

[Iceni]

Those ASG CNC motors run very cool.

I've been running the 35K version for quite some time now and it replaced the slower SHS HS, that ran very hot. Only run 18:1 7.4v so 22 ish rps. Nothing crazy.

It's not for a DSG setup tho... It would eat itself in seconds!



Nice to have you post! It's been a while!

 

 

[L3wisD]

Duck is back!

 

[Sitting Duck]

Those ASG CNC motors run very cool.

I've been running the 35K version for quite some time now and it replaced the slower SHS HS, that ran very hot. Only run 18:1 7.4v so 22 ish rps. Nothing crazy.

It's not for a DSG setup tho... It would eat itself in seconds!



Nice to have you post! It's been a while!

 

it has but I've hung up my guns now I reckon (long story - even by my war & peace standards)

just before stuff hit the fan I got hold of these motors.....

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/PermTerminator-Ultra-Custom-M160-High-Twist-Type-High-Speed-Motor-High-Torque-AEG-Motor-Short-Axis/2042149112.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.16.46e8542f3EI3Q9&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10065_10068_10130_10547_319_317_10548_10696_10192_10190_453_10084_454_10083_10618_10307_10820_10301_10821_10303_537_536_10902_10059_10884_10887_321_322_10103,searchweb201603_51,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=b8d37fa9-7fde-446f-88e1-aee119a81029-2&algo_pvid=b8d37fa9-7fde-446f-88e1-aee119a81029&transAbTest=ae803_3

&

https://www.dx.com/p/gear-motor-for-m180-m4-m16-mp5-g3-m14-power-upgraded-airsoft-aeg-2001815#.XHx0WcD7TIU

the blue looked nice with vents at about 28k

& red one at about 22k

both are neodym with alloy ends that seemed to mesh nicely with SHS bevels

but everything got packed away so never got round to putting them through their paces

they looked pretty decent and not too crazy or expensive

both with D pinions so easier to change than ASG O pinions

I only really popped in coz such a slow day today and wondered how you guys were doing

then f*ck me necro post nearly four years of the HC05 - but thought I'd best point out the BD M160 is too quick/hot

yeah chaps - you don't want them crazy mofo motors - way too hot & OTT if you know how to build a good box

Duck is back!

well I just popped back as it was so quiet today etc....

Duck Jnr is half way through his first year at Uni - 19 years old - jeeeeeeez

seem like only last month we racked up at TWA urban site (soon closed) at Crystal Palace/Anerley Hill

Glad to see you guys & this place still around

 

[PasToh]

I know this is old, but I am upgrading  a DSG Firehawk and I am new at this, so I hope someone could help me.

As almost everyone, I want to shoot it in semi, so I bought the Gate Aster mosfet, but that mosfet has problems of compatibility with the high speed motor that has the FH, I would like to buy the new EMG MilSim Spec Slim High Torque Motor that is selling Evike

https://www.evike.com/products/71993/

But I'm not sure if it's going to work, so I would like to know if someone has this configuration or similar and if it has semi.

Also, I want to know if the gearings are 18:1 because I'm not sure, and what spring does it have, because I want to choose the correct TPA motor, and what type of cylinder has, I'm looking for a longer barrel.

Thanks.

 

[Sitting Duck]

I'm not 101% certain but the ASTER might not work with the HC05

Well not out of the box...

The HC05 DSG sector has no COL cams on it

(well unless G&G has revised it)

The ASTER optically reads the COL cam on the sector gear for timings

Yeah.... One problem - the 5mm axle G&G DSG doesn't have any cams to read

So it ain't gonna do jack shit as far as I can tell

A similar problem with the ASTER and the TSG conversion thingy

is that affixing the top half of TSG to a reg lower half sector

means you only have ONE COL cam for the TRI-SECTOR-GEAR

(or affixing a DSG upper to a 12:1 lower sector to create a 6.25:1 ratio - only ONE COL CAM)

So the TSG or 12:1 DSG in an ASTER means it will fire 2 or three times (one full revolution)

then the ASTER's optical sensors set at an angle finally detect the single cam

NOW you could build your own "cams" for the ASTER to detect but will involve a bit of testing & shaving

see this video to understand it a bit...

He has the ASTER and this is what he had to do to get the TSG to operate in semi correctly

and in theory similar crap would apply to the HC05 DSG with no cams to begin with

Another thing to watch for is that many of these fancy mosfets are quite large

and even on 8mm bushings they come close to the outer edge of the sector's 8mm bushing

(they clear it, but on some models it is a little closer than others)

The HC05 has 9mm so called ceramics which are quite chunky

Yes you can replace these with 5KU 9mm bushings & 9mm SHS bearings

However - the G&G cam-less DSG (and the default Spur/Step gear) has 5MM Axles not 3mm

ergh so you can't just use a lower profile 9mm bearing or a 9mm bushing without enlarging the 3mm to 5mm

Now you "might" just about be OK with fitting the ASTER with the ultra chunky 9mm G&G ceramic with 5mm axles

but they are a bit chunky from what I remember

and here is pic of ASTER - with the red led beaming downwards trying to pick up the COL cam on sector

(which doesn't exist on G&G DSG unless you make them up from JB Weld etc...)

Really - what you should have bought was the Perun v2 Optical...

View attachment 68534

as it is much smaller - so totally misses the 9mm chunky ceramics

plus the sensors pick up the sectors teeth for timings - not COL cam

so would work on the cam-less G&G DSG & not be tight on chunky ceramics

The gear set in the HC05 is a reg 18:1 ratio

with a 10 tooth bevel I'm pretty sure of

but the spur/step gear was a weird 5mm axle and didn't run smoothly for me

so got a SHS 16:1 gear set, used the bevel & spur,

some 9mm bearings (couldn't get 9mm bushings quickly)

then moved some stuff around - put 9mm ceramics with 3mm axle for 16:1 spur

then SHS 9mm 3mm bearings on the bevel ( I think )

so had a spare couple of the G&G 9mm ceramics with 5mm centre for the weird DSG axle

I've got 9mm bushings now and one day may revisit my HC05 box

and fit the Perun Optical in it nad finally get it firing 101% on semi etc... at long last

But the thing is I would not put it back into the FireHawk in the end

as such a short 128mm barrel means you lose fps on the DSG 

so would probably look to swap boxes from say a G&G FFR A2 with a 205-ish barrel

(FFR A2 is/was an ETU that crapped out so is now old school trigger 13:1)

and this reg G&G box with 13:1's for the FireHawk instead - basically straight swap of boxes

but gain a bit of fps (hopefully) in the longer FFR A2

Similar thing to you fitting a longer barrel where you should see some gain/creep

But for me I'd drop the box into a slightly longer CQB M4 and keep the titchy FH look

(but to each their own as they say, yet it is a lot of fucking around regardless)  

The motor's in the FireHawk's is or was the Blue "Powerful Motor" ferrite but about 24,000rpm

(sorta weaker version of Orange Ifrit) - but pulls the DSG out of box

and fitted or WAS fitted to other FH's, CM18's and perhaps the 30th spec editions

but not always fitted to all guns - even the FFR A2 has the lame 27tpa/18k grey in there - shocked

Anyway the Blue motor isn't bad for a stock motor

and can get say 18rps on 13:1 with the G&G Bluey motor (done right with a few teeth SS'd) on 7.4v

maybe 16~17rps if needed a slightly bigger spring in a 128mm barrel

but still have option for snappy 7.4v and/or 25~26rps on 11.1v

(getting near the TopTech FireHawk performance)

To be absolutely honest - the HC05 is still a pile of shit imho

if G&G haven't sorted it out and got it to fire semi

or fitted the Perun Optical then they are bigger idiots than ever

you'd be better off getting a NORMAL FireHawk

steel 8mm bushings, metal rack SHS piston, SHS DSG with a bevel+spur from 16:1 SHS

(you should have the same motor anyway)

at least you will have semi unlike the HC05 out of box

well tbh I'd probably do the std FH as 13:1 than DSG

and say a 200~250mm M4 like the FFR A2 or short Raider sleeper gun as DSG

yeah the HC05 could be re-done with perhaps the Perun V2 Optical as best option

But it is still a fucking wank if G&G are knocking the exact same shit CQB guns out

Oh and DON'T use a High Speed motor like the BD-M160

stick with say a 25k to 30k SHS High Torque motor tops

maybe 18tpa to say 22tpa if you are trying hit over 350fps on titchy barrel gun

so need a slightly heavier spring

yeah the HC05 is still a pita & one that people should read up on before buying

(hence this post was originally more of a warning than a review)

 

[PasToh]

Thanks for your reply, I really appreciate it, the English is not my main language so I couldn't really understand everything, but I get almost all, at least the most important parts.

I have this FH since 2016 and I really love it, I didn't have problems with it, but is true that it isn't the best airsoft gun ever, although I'll try to upgrade it until I can't.

So again, thanks for your reply it help me a lot.

 

[Sitting Duck]

Your best option is either a Perun Optical V2 MOSFET,

or rip the G&G DSG out and replace with SHS DSG with 9mm bushings...

or JB Weld something to create crude cams for ASTER to detect

(it may not need very large pronounced cams created as the axle is larger 5mm

compared to reg 3mm axle, there is a slight risk this large sector axle may confuse

the ASTER, but the radius would only be 2.5mm compared to 1.5mm &

the height of any cam would be greater than this, so it should be possible imho)

Either way there is some cost/work involved,

The Perun would be maybe the best option if you could swap the ASTER for a Perun Optical ???

(ASTER is just under $70 on Evike & Perun is just over $70)

The ASTER is a decent option for boxes where say the 2-part Titan needs modification to box

to avoid fouling/shorting on some re-enforced boxes - think Krytac boxes need a bit of modding

Where the ASTER is a one piece unit, so no risk of fouling/short from top half of unit

(ergh - coz it doesn't have a top half on ASTER)

Unfortunately - it reads the sector COL cam, which normally would work fine in almost any v2 box

Alas coz the G&G's HC05 DSG has no cam(s) at all it won't work properly

so make the cams like TSG vid showed & test/retest

or use the Perun v2 Optical

I suggest you try & read some of the modifications I did to mine a while back,

You can skip most of me moaning about it, but your cylinder might have a hole drilled in it too

But focus or translate what stuff I did when I opened it...

One day I might fit a Perun in mine,

But it is a quirky gun as is with no semi.

G&G did this with no semi to avoid copyright from Seigtek/Riot,

Who had the idea/concept of the DSG.

Shame - could have been an awesome gun,

But as usual G&G didn't quite get it right

So HC05 owners are left with a CQB gun that doesn't fire on semi

and left to ponder, what way is best to finish the gun that G&G failed to do

it's so annoying, coz G&G did made a clone of Riot's DSG with cams on 3mm axles

https://www.guay2.com/en/product/detail-996

But for legal reasons I guess, went with a bespoke 5mm no semi one instead

to make some weird, odd lemony pig of a FireHawk DSG instead

Where as, G&G could have cut a deal with Riot perhaps

and/or approach Perun and buy in bulk the v2 optical

plus also their better ETU - now ETU++ than make their own crappy DairyLea ETU

Naaahhh, they wouldn't do that...

Why not ???

Specna Arms use Gate mosfets in some of their guns

from the X-ASR, also the ASTER and I think the Titan too

Once again, G&G let their pride get in the way

or rested on their laurels, allowing others to catch up & even surpass them sometimes