Double Eagle M904g – Aka the Original Q Honey Badger

[Skara]

If you go for a macaron, I suggest the Super variant, the contact patch is wider and it has two convenient shoulders that sit on the barrel window for better alignment and rigidity. Also go for a 70, I got better results with 70s than 60s or 50s in terms of consistency and range.

Omega nubs are fine albeit you want the hardest one you can find for a more consistent hop.

Motors I use both SHS HTs and ZCI 22tpa motors, the latter is much slower but runs super cool, the SHS will run a lot faster but heat up more.

 

[Rogerborg]

So would it be better to go to a smaller inner barrel (200mm) or goto a bigger size (229mm) but I have never worked on a gun before so I wouldn't be to sure or happy to cut something down.

200mm is sufficient for airsoft, you really don't need much barrel length to get up to UK power limits.  I've seen 0.95J out of a 110mm x 6.01mm and an oops!  1.3J out of a 229mm x 6.02mm, both with M100 springs.  Switching from a stock 210/215 to a tighter 200mm shouldn't effect your power much either way.

I wouldn't recommend cutting barrels down, just noting that it's an option if you want to get every last mm of length out of it.  There's no particular need or benefit though.

So would you recommend the XT or SHS motor over the ZCI??

I'd recommend the Big Dragon M140 from AliExpress, because I chisel every penny.  

They're really surprisingly decent for the price, with magnets that could pull a satellite out of orbit, although I've never sprung for anything brand-namier to compare them against.

Also go for a 70, I got better results with 70s than 60s or 50s in terms of consistency and range.

Omega nubs are fine albeit you want the hardest one you can find for a more consistent hop.

You play in 30C heat though.  I'll be playing at 3C on Sunday (if I'm lucky), which is why I'd suggest 60 for UK year round use.  Although as with most of airsoft, it's really a matter of sinking in more money and finding what works best for your gun at your site at your latitude, depending which direction the wind is blowing.

 

[Skara]

You play in 30C heat though.  I'll be playing at 3C on Sunday (if I'm lucky), which is why I'd suggest 60 for UK year round use.  Although as with most of airsoft, it's really a matter of sinking in more money and finding what works best for your gun at your site at your latitude, depending which direction the wind is blowing.

I did the testing in winter, where it doesn't get much warmer than you guys

I mean I'm in southern Europe but I'm not in the Sahara yet

 

[ak2m4]

@Rogerborg I've got one of those BD motors around somewhere, do the new one still use that tab can design?

 

[Rogerborg]

@Rogerborg I've got one of those BD motors around somewhere, do the new one still use that tab can design?

Tabs as in these?

View attachment 82539

Yes, still got those.  They're not magical quality, I did have to take one apart (bending and then re-squishing the tabs) to pop another shim under the shaft, there was just too much inny-outy play for my comfort.  Decent enough in use for the money though, a big step up from any stock motor I've had.

Could be (potentially) worse.  I have a Tornado where the screws on either side go into a common collar inside the shell.  Metal screws going into a common metal collar.

The only thing that stops it shorting out are micron-thin non-conductive washers under the screws, to keep them isolated from the plates.  If you lose or damage them and don't realise that they're vital while (for example) adding a diode, it will happily short out.  That was a lesson hard learned.  

 

[Fatboy40]

So would it be better to go to a smaller inner barrel (200mm) or goto a bigger size (229mm) but I have never worked on a gun before so I wouldn't be to sure or happy to cut something down.

If you've got to stick to 350 FPS on 0.20g BBs be wary of going too long and too tight. If your M904G is behaving as expected and has a UK spec spring then out of the box it should be around 345 FPS so longer and tighter could take you consistently over 350 FPS and your gun being too hot ?

I've not bothered with the barrel on mine, but I've changed a few other parts, as it's more than accurate enough for an up to 350 FPS AEG.

 

[GoodeyAirsoft]

If you've got to stick to 350 FPS on 0.20g BBs be wary of going too long and too tight. If your M904G is behaving as expected and has a UK spec spring then out of the box it should be around 345 FPS so longer and tighter could take you consistently over 350 FPS and your gun being too hot ?

I've not bothered with the barrel on mine, but I've changed a few other parts, as it's more than accurate enough for an up to 350 FPS AEG.

So i use 0.28g BBs in mine that runs me at around 280ish FPS/ 0.9 or 1.0 somthing joules.

So i might just go to a 200mm  inner barrel and make all the upgrade and see what happens, then make changes to keep it within UK limits.

 

[Fatboy40]

UK Double Eagle Stock Springs

I bought my son a DE M906C for Christmas, so far he's only fired it in the garden briefly, so before we play a game on 9/1/2022 I thought I'd swap in both a Maple Leaf 60 degree Macaron and Omega nub today (once my M908A arrives that'll be three DE M900's we have in the house).

The hop up units "arm" is the variant that has a hole for a "captive" nub... https://imgur.com/m9rWHXB ... which my M904E's arm does not, with this nub removed and the Omega nub installed this appeared (a visual check) to be adding quite a bit of hop to the Macaron without any hop actually being applied on the hop unit. A chrono gave me around 280 FPS on 0.20g, horribly under powered, so I thought it best to put all the original parts back in a chrono again (I forgot to do one beforehand). This still gave around 280 FPS, and started to get me worried.

I'm building up a nice supply of spare parts now, and have a few different springs to hand, so I thought I'd swap in a Gearparts M105 to see what the result would be. This lead to two negative discoveries, one the QC spring guide had its flat head screwdriver cut out mangled at some point... https://imgur.com/breI5D0 ... and secondly the spring was a hideously cheap and nasty one. So in goes the Gearparts M105, with DE M900's by default having both a piston head and spring guide bearing, and with no hop it shot hot at around 360 FPS and with a little hop it was consistently around 348 FPS so I was happy then and popped back in the ML Macaron (but the Omega nub will have to wait until I can buy a better hop unit).

That's two incidents I've had now with iffy springs in UK spec DE M900's, both of which were purchased from Patrol Base, who get them from Taiwan Gun as the European distributor. I personally don't think it's a coincidence, but who's installing these crap springs, is it DE themselves, the distributor or the reseller? (I'm going with either the distributor or reseller so they're country specific legal). This is a shot of three springs... https://imgur.com/PvoZtwF ... a Gearparts M120 at the top (170mm in length, with tighter coils at one end), my original DE M904E in the middle (160mm, no tighter coils) and at the bottom the M906C (200mm, no tighter coils). Both DE springs feel so cheap and flimsy compared to Gearparts and Guarder springs, especially the 200mm one. I'm very much looking forward to getting the spring out of my M90A when it arrives, as it's not from Patrol Base but I'm assuming the Taiwan Gun is the distributor (let's see if it has the usual green "Krakman" Polish label).

Luckily I've my own chrono, spare parts and tools, however the M906C could have gone to someone who'd not have known until a site chrono / a back garden plinker who'd never have known!

 

[RostokMcSpoons]

UK Double Eagle Stock Springs

I bought my son a DE M906C for Christmas, so far he's only fired it in the garden briefly, so before we play a game on 9/1/2022 I thought I'd swap in both a Maple Leaf 60 degree Macaron and Omega nub today (once my M908A arrives that'll be three DE M900's we have in the house).

The hop up units "arm" is the variant that has a hole for a "captive" nub... https://imgur.com/m9rWHXB ... which my M904E's arm does not, with this nub removed and the Omega nub installed this appeared (a visual check) to be adding quite a bit of hop to the Macaron without any hop actually being applied on the hop unit. A chrono gave me around 280 FPS on 0.20g, horribly under powered, so I thought it best to put all the original parts back in a chrono again (I forgot to do one beforehand). This still gave around 280 FPS, and started to get me worried.

I'm building up a nice supply of spare parts now, and have a few different springs to hand, so I thought I'd swap in a Gearparts M105 to see what the result would be. This lead to two negative discoveries, one the QC spring guide had its flat head screwdriver cut out mangled at some point... https://imgur.com/breI5D0 ... and secondly the spring was a hideously cheap and nasty one. So in goes the Gearparts M105, with DE M900's by default having both a piston head and spring guide bearing, and with no hop it shot hot at around 360 FPS and with a little hop it was consistently around 348 FPS so I was happy then and popped back in the ML Macaron (but the Omega nub will have to wait until I can buy a better hop unit).

That's two incidents I've had now with iffy springs in UK spec DE M900's, both of which were purchased from Patrol Base, who get them from Taiwan Gun as the European distributor. I personally don't think it's a coincidence, but who's installing these crap springs, is it DE themselves, the distributor or the reseller? (I'm going with either the distributor or reseller so they're country specific legal). This is a shot of three springs... https://imgur.com/PvoZtwF ... a Gearparts M120 at the top (170mm in length, with tighter coils at one end), my original DE M904E in the middle (160mm, no tighter coils) and at the bottom the M906C (200mm, no tighter coils). Both DE springs feel so cheap and flimsy compared to Gearparts and Guarder springs, especially the 200mm one. I'm very much looking forward to getting the spring out of my M90A when it arrives, as it's not from Patrol Base but I'm assuming the Taiwan Gun is the distributor (let's see if it has the usual green "Krakman" Polish label).

Luckily I've my own chrono, spare parts and tools, however the M906C could have gone to someone who'd not have known until a site chrono / a back garden plinker who'd never have known!

I just dug around in my parts box, assuming I've got the correct old spring (it is in a box with a post-it saying 'DE orig spring', I try to keep track) then mine measures 200mm.

Obligatory pic: View attachment 83480

And it's a linear spring too.

Same results I had, going from < 300fps (no hop) to 345fps

Apart from that, it's still a lovely gun, my best purchase so far  
 

 

[JVacation]

UK Double Eagle Stock Springs

I bought my son a DE M906C for Christmas, so far he's only fired it in the garden briefly, so before we play a game on 9/1/2022 I thought I'd swap in both a Maple Leaf 60 degree Macaron and Omega nub today (once my M908A arrives that'll be three DE M900's we have in the house).

The hop up units "arm" is the variant that has a hole for a "captive" nub... https://imgur.com/m9rWHXB ... which my M904E's arm does not, with this nub removed and the Omega nub installed this appeared (a visual check) to be adding quite a bit of hop to the Macaron without any hop actually being applied on the hop unit. A chrono gave me around 280 FPS on 0.20g, horribly under powered, so I thought it best to put all the original parts back in a chrono again (I forgot to do one beforehand). This still gave around 280 FPS, and started to get me worried.

I'm building up a nice supply of spare parts now, and have a few different springs to hand, so I thought I'd swap in a Gearparts M105 to see what the result would be. This lead to two negative discoveries, one the QC spring guide had its flat head screwdriver cut out mangled at some point... https://imgur.com/breI5D0 ... and secondly the spring was a hideously cheap and nasty one. So in goes the Gearparts M105, with DE M900's by default having both a piston head and spring guide bearing, and with no hop it shot hot at around 360 FPS and with a little hop it was consistently around 348 FPS so I was happy then and popped back in the ML Macaron (but the Omega nub will have to wait until I can buy a better hop unit).

That's two incidents I've had now with iffy springs in UK spec DE M900's, both of which were purchased from Patrol Base, who get them from Taiwan Gun as the European distributor. I personally don't think it's a coincidence, but who's installing these crap springs, is it DE themselves, the distributor or the reseller? (I'm going with either the distributor or reseller so they're country specific legal). This is a shot of three springs... https://imgur.com/PvoZtwF ... a Gearparts M120 at the top (170mm in length, with tighter coils at one end), my original DE M904E in the middle (160mm, no tighter coils) and at the bottom the M906C (200mm, no tighter coils). Both DE springs feel so cheap and flimsy compared to Gearparts and Guarder springs, especially the 200mm one. I'm very much looking forward to getting the spring out of my M90A when it arrives, as it's not from Patrol Base but I'm assuming the Taiwan Gun is the distributor (let's see if it has the usual green "Krakman" Polish label).

Luckily I've my own chrono, spare parts and tools, however the M906C could have gone to someone who'd not have known until a site chrono / a back garden plinker who'd never have known!

I've been doing a cyma ak build lately. I purchased it from PB. The springs are definitely coming from TG. Cyma aks always come really hot and Patrol Base use TG as a "supplier" I think what they are doing is ordering guns from TG and then getting them to downgrade them (which TG offer for free to normal customers). My Cyma ak came to me at 310 fps which is around the 310 downgrade that TG do. Also my spring looks exactly the same as the one you have.

 

[ak2m4]

@Fatboy40 The factory price for M906C is extremely low, they would never fit a spring with decent quality material sadly.  Try removing the thrust bearing from the piston head, you should see the fps come down 15fps

 

[doom9]

 

[ak2m4]

@doom9 love the SMG 45, not sure about that stock though, love the RS wire-frame stock, however it's only £115, pretty good value.

 

[RostokMcSpoons]

@doom9 love the SMG 45, not sure about that stock though, love the RS wire-frame stock, however it's only £115, pretty good value.

I'm really liking the look of this (inc the stock)

What sort of price would that £115 become if it eventually found its way to my front door?

 

[ak2m4]

What sort of price would that £115 become if it eventually found its way to my front door?

Should be roughly the same price if TW sold without the VAT or signed up for the vat prepayment. I imagine if they signed up for the prepayment scheme (I forget it's name) then they would skip handling charges?  

 

[RostokMcSpoons]

Perhaps I should 

a) Let someone else do the Taiwangun thang and report back

and more importantly 

b) Try the new guns I've just bought in a skirmish for the first time, before trying to buy another one (and risking my marriage)

 

[Fatboy40]

In the UK it would probably be the same as most other mid-ranged DE M4's, so I'd take a bet at £170 (although I've a horrible feeling that once the DE M900 range is back in stock everywhere in the UK prices are going to go up a little).

 

[RostokMcSpoons]

In the UK it would probably be the same as most other mid-ranged DE M4's, so I'd take a bet at £170 (although I've a horrible feeling that once the DE M900 range is back in stock everywhere in the UK prices are going to go up a little).

Yeah I've seen some on sale at over £200 already, but strangely Patrolbase have twice put m900s on sale down at £130 - once for black Friday, and once for a 'Muzzle Flash sale' (props to the marketing dept for coming up with that)

However in both cases there wasn't any actual stock to sell !

 

[Gaziel]

Hey guys, I've had the M904G for a few months now and its FPS has dropped a tonne, so figured I'd do all my upgrades at once and get it to better performance. 

I was wondering if these upgrades were suitable and would lead to better grouping, FPS changes and improved rapidness of the burst fire. Please give me any suggestions and changes.

Spring:

https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/gearparts-aeg-spring-m105?search=Gearparts M105

Motor:

https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/zci-motor-high-torque-long?search=Zci motor

Rubber bucking:

https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/maple-leaf-macaron-60-aeg

Inner barrel:

https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/zci-inner-barrel-229mm

Hop-up chamber

https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/zci-rotary-m4-hop-chamber-aluminium-red

 

[RostokMcSpoons]

I've taken the same journey, so you might want to catch up on my thread... 



I haven't changed the motor or barrel or hop unit... I'll be interested to see how you get on if you do change those, so please make before and after accuracy tests to prove what changes are really the most effective.. That would be very helpful to the community

I'm currently very happy with my gun after the change of spring, bucking and nub, but would always welcome more accuracy. 

The motor is fine (IMHO) , especially when driven by an 11.1v battery

Your shopping list looks the same as I'd make.  So good luck ?