Conversation overheard today at Holmbush Airsoft; Crawley

[PT247]

Have had a chat with the site owner about this incident even though I didn't play today and he has taken it very seriously.

As of today, my local site (EAG Worthing) has decided to chrono ALL guns every time with the weight ammo used on the field and at the Joule limit, pretty much all guns passed with only a few being a tad over, I was one of about 4 snipers so it's made a bit of an impact although give it a few months and people will swap springs out etc... Felt nice now having that "Hot gun" issue for once!

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Do they use their own ammo at the weight the player states they are using or do they take that persons word for it and use calculations based on the info given by the player? I get the sentiment with going by the weight stated but unless they use site own BBs then this is just as open for abuse as the OP situation. Joule creep is a thing but surely it is far far easier to just insist on chronoing with the sites own BBs?

 

[djben9]

Quick reply as on phone, I was behind a guy at Tuddenham who was checked, he was asked what weight, he said. Msrshall checked reading and chart to advise of fps, not seen that at other sites, so see it as a good thing, ?, guy was under for the weight he was using, at urban assault, not yet seen similar methods but not to say they don't as not been enough to register it

Anyway what's to say people don't pass chrono then swap around before game, what's the point in hurting someone in what's an honest based sport, Charlie uncles then!!, maybe random checking throughout games more often? Ok if will annoy but also if warned before hand can implement a ban if found out later or something similar??

Will just ruin it for others

 

[Dentonboy]

CSW always used to chrono guns as players left the SZ...and I believe they also chrono'd at the range as well.

Dog Tag is easily one of the most H&S concious sites I've ever played at, so this doesn't in anyway change how I feel they handle safety issues.

Just a shame that such conversations are being had, and for what end? One guy knew his gun would be hot and thus wasn't going to use it, but then his mate encourages him to cheat...so much for an honour game. Good on the guy with the gun for not using it (as far as I could tell).

 

[proffrink]

Anyway what's to say people don't pass chrono then swap around before game, what's the point in hurting someone in what's an honest based sport, Charlie uncles then!!, maybe random checking throughout games more often? Ok if will annoy but also if warned before hand can implement a ban if found out later or something similar??

Will just ruin it for others

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Swap what before the game?

 

[jcheeseright]

I'm guessing he means ammo, I'm also guessing he doesn't understand how energy limits are actually calculated either.

 

[Snakeeyes75]

Have had a chat with the site owner about this incident even though I didn't play today and he has taken it very seriously.

Do they use their own ammo at the weight the player states they are using or do they take that persons word for it and use calculations based on the info given by the player? I get the sentiment with going by the weight stated but unless they use site own BBs then this is just as open for abuse as the OP situation. Joule creep is a thing but surely it is far far easier to just insist on chronoing with the sites own BBs?

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Nope, you're correct in that they are currently using the players BB's rather than the sites however I reckon given time this might also change. They've made it very clear that anything that breaches this will mean a lifetime ban!

Problem is people like me that use .3/.43 &.45's. However if they kept a bag of .25 & .28's (maybe) that'd sort out about 80% of the players

 

[PT247]

Edit DELETED

 

[two_zero]

Was the player cheater banned?

 

[Esoterick]

Sites need to stop treating chronoing using 0.2g BBs as a magical fix for people using hot guns. My preference would be they chrono using their ammo and they yours.

http://www.airsoftsniperforum.com/43-longrange-aegs/15603-how-get-maximum-joule-creep-aeg.html

Granted this is using a specific setup but you can essentially make guns hot that won't chrono as such on 0.2g BBs

 

[Shizbazki]

the subject of hot guns, i thought i would add in the curve ball of joule creep.

I always use ASG Blaster .20g BBs when chrono'ing both at home using an XcoreTech X3200, my normal site Dragons Lair uses their own (variety of) mags loaded with .20g BBs in order to prevent cheaters.

So with that said when i take my G&G TR4-18 (HK 416) it chronos in at around a consistent 345FPS on .20gbbs from their mags, i normally use .25g BBs in game though.

So i take it one day to another airsoft site and as i had to use my own mags for chrono loaded with .25g BBs, when i chrono'd it was coming in hot at 320FPS (.20g equivalent of 360FPS) sufficed to say i could not use such a hot gun that day, so i was stuck using .20g BBs for that day as that gun was under the joule limit on that ammo weight but over on another ammo weigh, the site marshals were ok with this.

I have since turned it down by snipping a coil or two off the spring but it shocked me as it meant that all that time my gun was hot. :s

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

the subject of hot guns, i thought i would add in the curve ball of joule creep.

I always use ASG Blaster .20g BBs when chrono'ing both at home using an XcoreTech X3200, my normal site Dragons Lair uses their own (variety of) mags loaded with .20g BBs in order to prevent cheaters.

So with that said when i take my G&G TR4-18 (HK 416) it chronos in at around a consistent 345FPS on .20gbbs from their mags, i normally use .25g BBs in game though.

So i take it one day to another airsoft site and as i had to use my own mags for chrono loaded with .25g BBs, when i chrono'd it was coming in hot at 320FPS (.20g equivalent of 360FPS) sufficed to say i could not use such a hot gun that day, so i was stuck using .20g BBs for that day as that gun was under the joule limit on that ammo weight but over on another ammo weigh, the site marshals were ok with this.

I have since turned it down by snipping a coil or two off the spring but it shocked me as it meant that all that time my gun was hot. :s

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Might not be joule creep just a crap chrono.

 

[Shizbazki]

Might not be joule creep just a crap chrono.

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nah

I confirmed it when i got home the first thing i did was load up some .25g BBs, and fired a few shots into my X3200, that reported that i was shooting the equivilant .20g BB of 360FPS, too hot.

I have turned it down now so it fires at around 308FPS on .25g BBs

 

[Sitting Duck]

to be honest - this varying fps readings of guns going a bit over or under that was bang on perviously....

uhm warmer weather "may" play a part in this matter as well as variations in true ammo weight

if you are really sad - weigh ya bb's with a drug dealer scale in .01 increments....

trust me the odd bb or two do vary in weights - a 0.20 can come in @ .22 etc......

the warmer weather might also chuck stuff in mix with buckings working a little more effective etc.....

chill - a smidge over eg: 5fps can be hopped - I don't mind that 5fps

but over this I call hot and should not be used until properly brought within tolerance

and yes 349.9999fps is so called perfection but means very little if shooting $hit as we all know

play nice and fair guys x x x

 

[jcheeseright]

Depends entirely on the chrono rules there shiz, if the site limit is specified as Xfps measured with a .20g BB and you're within that limit then as far as I'm concerned you're not breaking their rules.

If they specified 1.13j then you'd have been over... Suppose it's all down to the wording of their rules.

I'm a massively in favour of joule limits rather than FPS limits, there's no scope for bullshit then.

 

[Dentonboy]

I've had the same AEG (G&P M16/M203) chrono at three sites as 351fps average at Ace Combat (too hot, red tagged), 345fps average at The Defilade and 349fps average at Dog Tag, with two different types of 0.2g ammo.

Nuprol at Ace and Defilade, Blasters at Dog Tag.

Myself and my brother think the variation between chrono brands is a big factor.

 

[jcheeseright]

Airsoft chronos aren't calibrated very often at all, some sites NEVER calibrate.

If anything I'd say that all your results coming in within 10fps is weird, I've seen up to 40fps difference between 2 different sites chronos.

 

[djben9]

Swap what before the game?

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damn phone, half message went!

forgot what i was going on about now but whats to say the dishonest softer like the ones mentioned above dont pass chrono with one gun and swap for a hot one or change ammo/parts etc before actual play thinking it will help them?

Do many sites have a walk into game via Chrono point?, its a game of honesty and when ive played people are but sounds like the ones posted about dont have any?

sorry still new with less than 10 games under my belt so still learning and observing everyday

post above (as multiquote failed )

Mine have been chrono'd anywhere from 195 to 352 as chrono was old, eventually settling up with last few being around 320-332ish, also take them to FFZ when im going for a shopping trip, seem to be around 320 there each time as well and 328 at last game, guns are still new though

 

[Sacarathe]

Its possible(?) you heard players talking about experimentation, if there's no queue, I ask to crono my guns on my game weight, for my own interests.

Depends entirely on the chrono rules there shiz, if the site limit is specified as Xfps measured with a .20g BB and you're within that limit then as far as I'm concerned you're not breaking their rules.

If they specified 1.13j then you'd have been over... Suppose it's all down to the wording of their rules.

I'm a massively in favour of joule limits rather than FPS limits, there's no scope for bullshit then.

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Agree completely, if a site's rules make no mention of joules, then you only have to pass their test. Just look at the VW emission scandal.

 

[GunmanAirsoft]

It's a shame to hear about things like this happening, we tend to find that the players who cheat chronos or swap springs/adjust HPA after chrono soon become very obvious in the field because they are usually the same players who wear Teflon or use those magic respawn bushes...

The whole basis of airsoft is honour and honesty, sadly there are plenty of people lacking in both

 

[Sacarathe]

My local site allowed me to play several times with a gun which was hot 1/10th of the time at chrono - but they specifically told me to be careful, and it wasn't like the results were wildly inconsistent, I think it was 1/10th 351 @0.2, and 9/10ths 348-350. But this was before I had played with the hop or put heavier ammo in - because heavier ammo needs more hop, which does affect 0.2g chrono. They chrono'd with site magazines.

I saw the same site block plenty of guns which were consistently over 350 and plenty which were over 1/2th of shots. All that aside, I used a sidearm whenever I got close to people anyway and he gun has since lost that occasional hotness.

As that site allowed DMRs 450 and bolts at 500, I rolled with it, but I think I would have a lower opinion of a site operator that did this where 350 was their all gun absolute maximum.