Bad Publicity?

[rj1986]

Page 1: Someone anti-KM is trying to petition 1j limits

Page 7: a discussion that a small 9mm Handgun is better than a narwhal tusk for self defence

 

[Lozart]

im not specifically talking about soviet or Russians what im saying is the the SED in East German decided they did think people were going to come back to East Germany after taking a trip to the west so they decided to build a massive wall, man it with armed guards .just to err on the side of caution. To me erring on the side of caution is totally undemocratic and criminalises whole populations.

To be fair 3.5 million people defected to the west before they built the wall (or "Anti-Fascist Protection Rampart" to give it it's GDR name).

 

[Dogsbody100]

3 hours ago, Tommikka said:

And another good guy with a gun, school armed security who ran away when the reason he had a gun occurred:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48521988
 

Better results have occurred when we have good guys with a Narwhal tusk and fire extinguisher, or good guys with harsh words:

“Don’t come here” or  “You ain’t no Muslim, bruv”

Granted the security guy who did a runner was a dick and could have done more, he may as well have not been there at all. 
 

I don’t think he counts as an example for that reason.

Then at the end of the scale entirely is those guys armed with tusks and fire extinguishers, those guys need Victoria crosses!! Again, the argument still stands, what would that piece of shit murdering terrorist have done were they not there? We’ll never know but he’d have had one less thing to worry about.

That brings me on to your other point, that interveners cause more casualties, could be but as above we won’t ever know, certainly again the perpetrator would have one less distraction.

If I was one of these assholes shooting somewhere up I’d be thinking twice if I knew someone there also had a gun! 

 

[Tackle]

Not entirely sure why you guys are still debating the pro's & cons of UK firearms ownership, ain't ever gonna happen, will only get worse in fact in the case of law abiding citizens who would be prepared to go to the aid of others in the event of the kind of emergency situation being discussed.

Will that concern criminals or lunatics though ?........ 

Don't be silly, those intent on doing harm will always succeed, in much the same way that is Airsofters are the pretty much the only people affected by the vcra.

 

[Stratton Oakmont]

To be fair 3.5 million people defected to the west before they built the wall (or "Anti-Fascist Protection Rampart" to give it it's GDR name).

And all the guns and ammo they had couldn’t stop the mighty ‘Hoff’ from singing that wall right down to rubble.

 

[GenuineGerman]

@GenuineGerman said hope in human nature a while ago... how about hoping that you wont need a weapon to go about your daily life? i feel its a sad state to be in.  to feel the need to always be armed just to be safe

I don't think I've said that i think we should all be walking around carrying guns just in case. My argument was that we should be allowed to apply to have any weapon. If its come across like that i apologise and would like to clarify that position. I completely agree with your point it would be very sad if you had to carry a weapon around with you just to feel safe.

There will always be an element of society that can't abide by the rules and will break laws be it knives, guns, drugs, fraud. Buy heroin you are funding Islamic extremism, buy cocaine you fund the cartels. Where does it stop The reality is its all of big shitty chain of horrible people. But i still have faith in human nature because the good outnumber the bad . And you can't treat good people like they are bad.

To be fair 3.5 million people defected to the west before they built the wall (or "Anti-Fascist Protection Rampart" to give it it's GDR name).

They did and the SED shat themselves and decided just in case anyone else wants to leave we are going to wall you in. Practical experience causes me to worry about the just in case argument because it will always give you a reason to deprive someone of something.

The UK has a proud history of democracy which is rightly deserved but What if   

 

[Tommikka]

If I was one of these assholes shooting somewhere up I’d be thinking twice if I knew someone there also had a gun! 

However that doesn’t work when you look at the US.

In Parkland there was someone on scene with a gun, they ran away, the police arrived - all armed and waited

America suffers from mass shootings because the shooter is willing to shoot as many people as they can until they die

In Las Vegas he gathered all his weapons, barricaded himself in, started shooting and continued until they got to him 

There is a problem with the number of guns out there, the gun culture that sees the gun as a solution and something that brings the

concept to minds to go out for a shooting prepared to go out ‘in glory’

 

[Stratton Oakmont]

The UK has a proud history of democracy which is rightly deserved but What if   

We would wheel out shakin stevens and no wall would stand.

 

[Lozart]

They did and the SED shat themselves and decided just in case anyone else wants to leave we are going to wall you in. Practical experience causes me to worry about the just in case argument because it will always give you a reason to deprive someone of something.

The UK has a proud history of democracy which is rightly deserved but What if   

It makes sense to be sceptical but be careful it doesn't descend into paranoia.

 

[Impulse]

It makes sense to be sceptical but be careful it doesn't descend into paranoia.

@Lozart is a reptilian trying to distract us from the lizard people who run the world.

 

[Lozart]

Lozart is a reptilian trying to distract us from the lizard people who run the world.

 

[Druid799]

I’m not that sure about that, let me give you an example. In Poland black powder guns are completely legal and don’t require you to even register them with the police (unlike modern firearms which require you to obtain a permit, pass medical exams etc). So I can now go to a store, buy a black powder revolver, some 10mm lead bullets, black powder, primers and (what is also legal) walk around the city with my revolver on me. Guess what. Since 2009 iirc when that law has been passed only one person has been shot using black powder rifle. One. Your arguments are invalid.

Hahaha now that is a slim excuse ! Your hardly going to get your local ‘hardmen’ going out on the town with a brace of duelling pistols stuck in the top of there breaches are you ??

in the uk you can buy and own any fully functioning pistol or rifle without a license just as long as it’s listed on the home office ‘prescribed obsolete calibers’ list But this doesn’t mean I’m going to rush out and stock up on Labele pinfire revolvers now does it ?
That excuse is as Danny glover says to Mel Gibson  in ‘Lethal weapon’ is “that’s thin , that’s really fucking thin !” ? ???

 

[Stratton Oakmont]

But this doesn’t mean I’m going to rush out and stock up on Labele pinfire revolvers now does it ?

Steady on, you will make heroshark/cromulon giddy talking like that.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

forget a tangent, the direction this thread has taken is approaching normal (meant in the angular sense of 90° from tangent rather than "ordinary")

 

[jsmithski]

Not sure I understood your responses but if the only argument is that black powder guns are not cool, then there’s no sense in continuing this conversation. Is such revolver less deadly than a glock?

 

[Keldon]

I see most people talk about if the cases of criminals or dangerous people getting hold of guns. Though I would be more worried about the general public. How many times have you got into an altercation which has ended up in a punch up. Now all those people who only had words and fists, now have guns the ability to escalate from words to a little shove to then lethal force is greatly increased.

That little bit of road rage that was just words and a bit of shouting, can now very easily escalate from words straight to finding a gun being pointed at you. 

Then finally all the accidents that will happen, that can be fatal. Being ex military with 13years man service and 8 years cadets experience with weapons. I have seen many negligent discharges from people who are highly trained, from all ranks including up to the Commanding Officer. 

So for me no matter how tight getting the licence would be it will never stop any of these incidents. 

So it's a hard no from me we have it right and I see no reason for why you should be allowed to have such weapons. 

 

[jsmithski]

You don’t have much faith in humanity, do you? When people bring up such arguments I always think they speak for themselves, not the general public. Maybe you should not own any guns if you think that way, I agree.

 

[kasaran]

Not sure I understood your responses but if the only argument is that black powder guns are not cool, then there’s no sense in continuing this conversation. Is such revolver less deadly than a glock?

Effective firing range of a glock is considered to be 50 metres. Though they could manage further.

For black powder pistols to semi reliably hit a 6 inch grouping i have found repeatedly the figure of 50 feet to be quoted. So 15 metres effective range before it can wizz off of the intended target (the magic of rifling).

So yes.  Glocks are more dangerous in range.  And lets not forget the rate of fire improvement...

This kinda agrees

 

[DrAlexanderTobacco]

You don’t have much faith in humanity, do you?

Not since the only solution to America's horrific school shooting situation was a global pandemic, no

 

[Keldon]

You are right these have all been my experiences, I have got my self into punch up, most people have at some point in there life. 

I have had some idiot have a go because of road rage. 

I have also sat across from a fellow soldier in Afghanistan clean his rifle only to put it all together wrong then have it shoot a round through the tent almost taking the head off an American soldier in the next tent. 

So like I said some of these are good people highly trained individuals. And yet you are asking Joe public not to fall foul to the same mistakes. 

I don't see why we need real firearms more than we do other than I want too excuse. 

And I'm sorry but Joe public will not be as well trained as professionals, and professionals still make mistakes.