Airsoft Mesh Test...

[Del Monty]

While Trolling through You-Tube.

Ignoring the fact its done at point blank with a 450fps gun, and the stupidity of this test, Do you trust your mesh, genuine question .. im curious to those who can wear mesh whether you choose it over goggles and glasses.

 

[Tariq]

I've been shot from 1m away multiple times and never had a dent. my friend did have his dented once and replaced them the next game.

if you're sensible with them I dont see why they're not any less safe than glasses that usually don't cover the entire eye line.

 

[Ian_Gere]

I've done my own testing to destruction of meshes and yeah, I wear 'em.

The thing you need to ask yourself is what are you wearing them to protect against, a likely skirmish situation, a possible accident, a penis with an agenda trying to make holes in the mesh, some complete wanker deliberately trying to shoot you in the eye...?

You need to also consider what is actually possible. In my tests I discovered that it took 11-12 (I forget the exact figures) shots exactly into the same place to make an actual hole bursting the mesh, but even then the next shot didn't go straight through. Interestingly, when firing full-auto it took almost a third more to produce the same results. My theory is that the BB's hitting each other, one behind the other, absorbs some of their momentum. It comes down to Rate Of Fire and how long you think your head could remain still and how long someone could accidentally keep their finger on the trigger, because, clearly, outside of doing it deliberately, there is no way it could happen from semi-auto fire.

So 17-ish rounds... even for a very fast ROF that's 0.5s, but more likely 0.8-.9s - is that likely and, if so, how likely? More likely than a BB making it past the edge of polycarbonate lensed shooting glasses, or tripping over something, or running into something, because you can't see through fogged goggles?

My best eyepro are some mesh inserts I made myself for my ESS V12 Advancers (after testing several types of mesh samples from industrial suppliers to destruction). They will not withstand a lot of shots, if I ever get shot in the eye while wearing them I will retire to the safe zone to check whether they are still safe and, if not, switch to my Hero Sharks. I'm convinced by the performance of their SS316 0.71mm #8 mesh (which is made stronger by the convexity I have shaped into them and the way the wires are curled over at their ends to lock their position in the shape) under tests, that an accident through inability to see through eyepro properly is by far more likely than an accident due to their failure and, for me, shooting glasses with gaps fog up anyway. The thing is, despite several outings, they haven't yet been hit. That's probably because I don't wear them for CQB or scenarios where I expect to have to rush the opposition.

Just last weekend though I put my new Bullet Ants to the test, with Fog[Tech] and the cloth that comes with ESS goggles (thanks James Cheeseright for the tip). They did fog, but only after 2.5-3hrs skirmishing during which I was more physically active than I usually am. I modded them mind - by taking the dust sieving foam off the vents for increased air circulation. The clear polycarbonate lenses for the ESS V12's still fogged like bastards with the Fog[Tech] and ESS treatment. More Fog[Tech] sorted out the Bullet Ants though, so although I'm going to keep them in reserve, that's my Hero Sharks, which I have never liked for through-vision, benched. However I will continue to use the mesh inserted ESS V12's for sniping and other support role woodland scenarios, because they not only fit my face really well, but looking through them is almost like wearing nothing at all.

 

[Esoterick]

My real concern using mesh is people using Bio BBs or just cheap ones as they have been reported to shatter on impact. Thing is a lot of it seems anecdotal and while i've seen plenty of photos of people with their teeth chipped not wearing mouth protection, i've seen only one chap say he got hit in the eye wearing mesh. Not to mention it isn't clear if that was paint from the mesh or plastic from the BBs - The Herosharks aren't painted on the inside, but a lot of other mesh eyepro is.

Ian's points about shooting glasses are valid. It's funny seeing people scoff at wearing lower face protection when they are wearing shooting glasses that allow for you to more or less poke them in the eye with your thumb through the gaps on the sides.

 

[Ian_Gere]

I have been hit in the eye by a BB fragment through my Hero Sharks - it was just like getting sand in the eye at a beach: annoying but, so long as you don't rub it, not actually a problem; you just need to rinse your eye. Think about it: how big a fragment can possibly fit through mesh? How much momentum can that fragment still have after the energy needed to shatter the BB is taken into account and the energy lost when bouncing through the metal (as the chances of it going cleanly through have got to be almost nil) - it has a tiny fraction of the mass and considerably less velocity, thus it's no wonder that it doesn't have enough energy to do you any harm.

BTW, it's not just bio or shitty BB's which shatter - I'm forever shattering Blasters on my sticky target: when another BB hits one stuck to it, often one, the other, or both will shatter.

 

[Unrustle_Thine_Jimmies]

Welp,that test is irrelevant to me because 1 Joule limit,I've been hit plenty of times on my chinese ones in CQB and not a single dent or issue. Mind you,I did have them strengthened by a metalworker because I don't trust them damn commehs. Most people use .2s or .23s in my local so Joule creep is not an issue.

Then again I'm a bit of a bastard and I use joule creep a lot,even shot out a blokes flashlight. Because of this I avoid the head unless it's the only thing in sight.

 

[Ian_Gere]

Wot is joule creep? Like sticking loads of hop on to get under an FPS hard limt? Chrono'ing with 0.25's and saying they're 0.2's? Cos those already have a name: cheating.

About the only thing i will do to game the chrono is shoot my CO2 pistol into the floor before the shots that get measured cos on a hot day that 1st shot can be around 374. But A i couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with my 1st shot fast drawn and B i actually fire it into the ground 1st whenever i take it out anticipating using it.

 

[Unrustle_Thine_Jimmies]

It's hard to explain,I'll do my best and link other sources,But it has nothing to do with cheating the chrono. Most sites don't touch on this factor as they interpret the legal limit as 328FPS with .2g BBs. As long as you hit that marker,you're legal,since a .2g accelerated to 328 FPS will have 1 joule in energy.

Joule creep is when you use heavy BBs to Increase muzzle energy,in joules. FPS or M/S is the speed while Joules are the actual energy,so speed will decrease but hitting force will increase.

I chrono 250 with a .2g,getting .7 Joules,but using a .28g I get around 220FPS and 1.2 or 1.3 joules(Been a while since I checked joule creep so numbers may be off) So my gun is technically illegal if I use .28g,I get higher joules since I have a short barrel and over volumed cylinder.

It's sort of a legal issue in Ireland as the law states the legal power limit is 1 Joule,not 328 FPS,but very little people interpret it that way and the law isn't actually enforced by the government,it's mainly an issue if you will be allowed to play at a site. I know a good few people who own tricked out VSRs firing over 500FPS as target rifles,not meant for games,then it falls onto air rifle laws which I'm not versed in.

Some more sources which explain it far better than I do,I'm still reading up on it myself,below.

Just to make it clear,if power limits were enforced properly,by joules and not FPS then I would be honest and use lighter BBs. But I sort of hope it isn't since I quite like the little advantage,I did tell it to a few team mates on a jeep ride once but we agreed to keep it hush hush to only a few people.

Guess we're going to be giving the local shop some business for heavy bbs.

http://www.airsoftforum.com/board/thought-FPS-Joule-Cree-t277032.html

http://www.airsoftsniperforum.com/32-general-sniper-talk/9995-energy-creep.html

 

[Ian_Gere]

Aha, gotcha. This is something akin to "suck-back": an effect which people with some knowledge have worked out is possible and, having done so, have looked for it and, lo and behold, found it. The fact that the real world application of the physics involved is far from the closed system that the maths derived from theory assume/represent is neither here nor there... the effect has been postulated and named, therefore the emperor's new BB's must be observed.

I expect that the key to understanding the real world situation is, much like with suck-back, how long does a BB spend in the barrel, but also how much difference in milliseconds is there between those times for different weights of BB.

 

[NickM]

I'll back up Ians findings re shattering bb's.

There is a thread I started on here http://www.airsoft-forums.co.uk/index.php/topic/16951-bbs-shattering-during-glasses-test/#entry112257, stating what I found when testing my JG Bar10 Gspec that was firing 500fps on the dot. All of the bbs were fired point blank into a pair of £5 safety specs I had been using before I got the mesh. The cheap .25 Zero one bbs actually put dents into the plastic with one split in half, the blasters shattered on impact.

Simple physics will back up Ians discovery that a shattered BB will "probably" not do any damage to your eye. Its about mass, velocity and energy.

KE = kinetic energy, m = mass, v = velocity

This alternative can also be used (mainly swaps velocity for the relevant section of the speed=distance/time calculation)

A small fragment of bb might have sharp edges hence the scratch risk, so no rubbing eyes, pour water from your nose to the outside of your eye holding the effected eye open. But a piece small enough to go through the holes in a mesh goggle will be very low energy. And that's if the fragment keeps all of the energy it had when it hit the mesh which according to the laws of physics is impossible, some will be lost as heat, sound and the energy of the whole bb will be shared amongst all the bits (not equally mind).

Do I use mesh? Yep

Will I continue? Yep

Do I worry about hits to my eye from small fragments of bb? Not at all, as Ian says I'm more concerned about injuries I might get if I trip/fall/walk into something due to fogged lenses.

My main concern is that now I'm going for a sniper role mesh doesn't give me the clarity of vision unfogged glasses do. But I get hot easily and sweat so they fog almost immediately hence sticking to the mesh currently, although I like Ians mod to the Ess goggles, I might have to give that a go!