After some advice about starting a new site! :D

[WAH64_Man]

Yeah agreed! We're very aware of easy it would be to get carried away with it, in the quest for perfection!

We're all sitting down over the next fortnight to discuss finances etc. if we could find somewhere good to rent then I think we could do it without need a business loan!

I've noticed that theirs an event forecast for Sennybridge,mwhich was originally meant to be at Copehill Down! Are the MOD on side then for allowing events on their training areas?

 

[jcheeseright]

my only input here is; "airsoft on an airfield, SOMEONE CALL THE FOD POLICE IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!".

 

[Mike636]

my only input here is; "airsoft on an airfield, SOMEONE CALL THE FOD POLICE IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!".

FOD Plod on completion!

Oh god I feel so dirty after typing that

 

[Baz JJ]

I believe that some organisers have regular arrangements with the MOD but I think its for specific time windows well defined in advance and they are very subject to change. I don't believe high level training areas are used.

Im sure other members who have attended these will be able to comment better.

Its not a good time for business loans.

One of the things Ive noticed, talking to a lot of sites, is that they are either entrenched in what I call civilian skirmishes or they are very far up their own backside and there are some very scary WALT groups out there.

Ive always maintained that there is room for a decent organisation that falls between and caters for what people want to do.

For example, I asked one site the other day if I can use my M249 on the top of their tower providing suppressing fire to both teams so it would become an obstacle to both. If hit, I didn't want to descend the tower and respawn due to the slippery ladder access, especially if you get hit every five minutes. My suggestion was a timed down time i.e once hit, I couldn't fire for a fixed time period. The answer was a straight no. Assign to a team and climb down each time. So, I wont be taking it there.

On our Facebook group, we were talking about a new mortar that has hit the market, but many sites wont even consider you bringing it.

So, there is demand for something more than a straight skirmish site. Personally, I think some sites are making so much money by just repeating the same tired old games in a skirmish format, they are getting a bit complacent.

Incidentally, I just noticed the side chat on this topic going on in status updates and have read through the comments of the others which is all good advice.

For the forum admin, this is a good example of where chat in this area detracts from the topic content and you get a split topic. The forum would be a lot busier if topics were focused. Isn't status updates for just updating your status ?

Yeah agreed! We're very aware of easy it would be to get carried away with it, in the quest for perfection!

We're all sitting down over the next fortnight to discuss finances etc. if we could find somewhere good to rent then I think we could do it without need a business loan!

I've noticed that theirs an event forecast for Sennybridge,mwhich was originally meant to be at Copehill Down! Are the MOD on side then for allowing events on their training areas?

 

[NickM]

The MOD sites I've heard of being used are, Sennybridge, Copehill and Rype Village Lydd. There are probably more.

However. Almost every one of the events at these sites that I know of in the last 2 years of airsofting have been changed either date or location at some point from their being advertised and eventually run. The MOD takes precedence on any of their land, understandably, but what it does mean is that the organisers end up having a headache and they potentially lose business. I've just had to pull out from the BritTac event because of the distance.

I'm happy to travel to events, if they are really good/unique, but they can't be every month, it would be a once or maybe even twice a year thing for me. And for a really special event I'll pay more than the average skirmish price. For example about 4 times in the last 6 months I have made a 1.45 hr round trip from where I live to UCAP the sandpit, when I'm there I pay £10 more than the average day skirmish price at my local.

£20, Average skirmish (probably go once a month, maybe twice if there weren't plans to go somewhere better) I would expect:

no lunch (can buy if I want it),

short interesting games (1hr max)

a total blat fest from most of the people there

many players using high caps

many players not using proper teamwork or tactics of any kind, while I try to be a bit more tactical

A free battery charge available

some interesting structures/terrain to play around.

Probably about 30-50 players.

A significant number of unaccompanied teens, some play well, others really haven't got a clue and occasionally some can be a pain. Two tone guns in evidence, (this really spoils a game for me, you might as well have a neon sign saying "here I am shoot me")

Maybe 2 or 3 marshals.

Some standing around while the next games are organised.

£30-40, UCAP/Special skirmish ( possibly once a month because it is a bit of a drive for me),

Lunch included (price dependant, UCAP do a pretty good lunch for the £30),

Interesting props-- eg UCAP - WMIK's (they provide the ammo and fuel) with a mounted 50cal and 249. Occasionally they rock a para mortar unit that can be deployed and fired by players under marshal supervision, pyro supplied by them. The WMIK also has a triple mortar unit.

Longer games which are new to me ideally (UCAP seem to run enough different games that in the 6 or 7 times I've been have never been repeated).

Players working in organised teams with a basic understanding/use of tactics.

Many players using midcaps,

lots of comms in action.

100 or more players, many coming in large teams already.

No Two tone AMAZING! Teens with guardians that are as good or better than the adults (behaviour and skill wise)

Slick gaming.

A large team of marshals ( sometimes 10 or more)

For a milsim weekend at a really interesting site I would drive probably 2-3 hrs each way, and pay up to £100. I would expect some seriously good gaming though for that money. Great scenarios that are believable, immersive and involve some serious challenges. Although I'm not in the military so I don't expect realistic time scales or to spend hours on stag, I'm there for some really good shooting.

I know of one Milsim events has used an afghani style village the MOD have built, they even had a Civilian population of market traders with stalls and everything, cant remember who though.

 

[Baz JJ]

The Afghan village was probably Stanta in Norfolk ?

 

[WAH64_Man]

This is all great info. Thanks a lot Nick M! You're right Baz, their is a large Afghan Style Village on STANTA. We used to work it when they were training the new JTACS ready for Afghanistan.

Interesting about the MoD being wilco with their TA's! This is something we'll defo look at. We would aim to go for more of a mil sim package rather than the skirmish type. Our scenarios would be full on and packed with realism based events that we've been involved with. Because of this we could keep changing them on a regular basis to keep things interesting.

I suppose we'd have to see how well it took off before ruling out running smaller exercises. Interesting on the price though, if we could run a couple of mil sim events each month and get a good reputation then it could be something that we could fully focus on!

Anybody else care to list what they think makes or breaks a great event? How clued up on tactics are the people that compete in the events or would you say it's normally a good split? I suppose when we advertise the event we could mention the level it's being pitched at?

 

[Baz JJ]

It will vary. Unlike the military where you get a similar level, Airsoft will yield everything from ex military with a higher level of expectation to skirmishers with little understanding of drills looking to try something different.

How clued up on tactics are the people that compete in the events or would you say it's normally a good split? I suppose when we advertise the event we could mention the level it's being pitched at?

Stanta

http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/forums/military-sites/59231-stanta-battle-area-norfolk.html

 

[Mike636]

I think what makes it good for me is : -

• Different game types/objectives
• All the marshals singing of the same sheet in regards to boundaries, rules, out of play areas that sort of thing
• Friendly Marshals
• Somewhere between MilSim and a normal skirmish, so a plot that makes use of the site
• Long games don't bother me unless its every player going for the same objective and ending in a big ol' boring stalemate/war of attrition/who has the most ammo slug fest
• Small teams going after lots of objectives
• Never had vehicles but if they were involved they would have to be vulnerable in a way that made it fair
• uniform requirements in a way that its easy to identify teams such as Green Vs Tan/Black/Hawaiian Shirt
• Accessible to all players of any budget/experience/age
• Free Tea
• Free Coffee
• Biscuits? G'wan then

That's my 2p for ya, though if its making use of a unique site like the Afghan Villiage maybe hold it over two days with a break at night for a few beers and a BBQ!

 

[WAH64_Man]

Like the evening break for beers and BBQ idea! Then crack on again at first light! I'm leaning towards the Full Mil Sim experience. Maybe run 1 a month but make it big! Especially now I know theirs scope to run it on MOD Training Areas! We're planning on visiting a few different sites over the next month or so to have a chat and see how things are run.

Taking on other bits of advice, it's key that we advertise it well! What are the most popular magazines that people buy? Also noticed that theirs the occasional program on TV! I've just been letting my mate now the feedback we've received so far and reckon we need to give it a good few months of advertising before the event. If we were to focus our attentions on running one a month as a full mil sim I reckon we could make some great, challenging and realistic weekends! If we could recruit 100+ players we could run real time Company attacks etc with numerous objectives

 

[Baz JJ]

I never buy the magazines, so don't know what kind of local (driving distance) readership you would get in return for your money. Also many mags run the same ads each issue so readers get blind to them. If you go ahead, let me know as I have a milsim group on Facebook and through Flipboard and would happily give you some publicity for free.

 

[Mike636]

Airsoft Action and Airsoft International are the biggest I think, but to be honest you could do most of it yourself via Facebook and a few of the groups on there and hold it when there are no other events going on and I'm sure you could save yourself a big expense. Try not to get too involved with large unit tactics as sometimes it'll be like herding cats. A solution would to have a commander for each team and have them direct small units to capture various key points, like a huge game of risk!

 

[Russe11]

Consider themed airsoft as well. Theres a big WW2 airsoft community out there http://www.ww2airsoft.org.uk/ that way you can repeat a scenario by adding the ww2 twist and appeal to a different market without having to come up with anything new

 

[WAH64_Man]

Thanks for the offer of help Baz, much appreciated!

Mike 636, that's the kind of thing we hd in mind, just allocate different jobs within the teams and let them figure out how to achieve the objectives!

Russe11 I love the sound of that! I was just chatting to my mate about adding realism and looking at Helo's via a few of our friends for inserts and casevac etc! I remember taking a cab down to a Mil Vehicle Convention one weekend and there were loads of vehicles there! No doubt those guys would love to come and thrash their vehicles around

 

[AirsoftTed]

No doubt those guys would love to come and thrash their vehicles around

Tier 1 (I believe) who are a well established mil-sim company pay collectors to drive their vehicles around for the weekend I think. Don't quote me on it though, it may have been another company.

I think you could do with looking up the Berget events, something like that in the UK would have people travelling from all over!

I also think a good realism feature would be securing rights for players to dig foxholes, build up their own little emplacements within reason, and have them filled in after the event. There is a site in wales somewhere which allows this IIRC, would allow you to allocate field engineers into the teams, perhaps even have a few .50 cal's made up and allocated per team but this would be expensive.

Would you be able to get your hands on Comms? Tier one signs out raidos to sections I think, giving each section a radio man which helps with the immersion.

 

[WAH64_Man]

Would you be able to get your hands on Comms? Tier one signs out raidos to sections I think, giving each section a radio man which helps with the immersion.

We should be able to get Comms without too many issues! These are one of the must haves to add to the realism as far as we're concerned. Obviously it will be dependant on the size of the exercise area and numbers involved!

I'd love to be able to offer the option to allow people to dig in, but I know that a lot of the Training Areas have restrictions on it. This obviously won't be a problem if we don't use MOD land

 

[AirsoftTed]

Yeah I was thinking about the MOD restrictions putting a hold on that.

I think one key thing will be getting cover and firing positions set up well, my local site is absoulutely shocking as far as thats concerned, everything thats meant to be defended has no firing points that are of any use and it just makes play frustrating, basically if you go inside a building you will end up dead because you cant react to contacts lol.

You'll have to find a balance between cover/firing postions being useful and realistic but also (as unlogical as it would be in combat) balanced which is the hardest part. Theres a fine line between them being useful to the occupier, and impossible for the attacker to take .

 

[WAH64_Man]

We've got an idea of a training area, and are planning on speaking to the Range Warden at the beginning of the week. It's not on the same scale as Salisbury Plain, with Copehill Down, or Eastmere Village on STANTA, but it has a good variety of bunkers, ammo compounds, open fields and woodlands which would be amazing!

I've just looked on the Tier1 website and it looks really impressive. That's exactly the kind of thing were looking at doing but obviously on the other side of the country! We'd like to concentrate fully on MilSim as they do. Obviously the Pre Event training would be tricky for us!

 

[WAH64_Man]

Well things are starting to take shape. We've started to think about a few different scenarios, we've looked into Public Liability Insurance, and registering with the UKARA. We've got some ideas in mind for locations and will make enquiries when in work on Monday. We've decided to attend the Air Soft Show in two weeks time to take a look around and talk to people, and then start trying to bring everything together!

 

[AirsoftTed]

Just a heads up about the airsoft show, I bought my ticket before I knew better so will see you there on the sunday, but I hear its full of idiots such as JustBBguns who are trying to impress the neighbouring shooting show, who are all in tweed and flatcaps, so take anything you hear from the stallholders with a pinch of salt.