Sniper upgrades question.

[Mos]

Hey,

I'm upgrading my sniper soon, and I was going to chuck in a 6.03 barrel. I think 6.03 is the right choice (from what I've read), for further range and accuracy. If anyone has better ideas for barrels in use for accuracy and range let me know.

But I was looking at some things and people said stuff like "finally got that hop unit, can now use my ORGA barrel" this sounded to me as if there are compatibility issues with certain types of hop unit and barrel.

So, I was thinking to just keep the stock hop chamber, new hop rubber, Prometheus soft. And a 6.03 barrel, I believe PDI do some.. So would I need a new hop chamber, or can I keep the same one.

Or just bugger the whole thing and keep the stock barrel.

 

[sp00n]

What gun is it on?

Spring/hpa/gas?

FYI I use a pdi 6.05 on my mancraft'ed vsr

 

[Mos]

Oh, it's a springer. A TM VSR pro

 

[Monty]

Get a Prometheus barrel, you'll gain much more noticeable results combining with your suggestions. Although, you'll probably get better performance replacing all the stock internals with mancraft parts.

 

[Mos]

Get a Prometheus barrel, you'll gain much more noticeable results combining with your suggestions. Although, you'll probably get better performance replacing all the stock internals with mancraft parts.

Click to shrink...

Alright thanks for that. It probably does make sense to go prom barrel and prom bucking.. Is there a best size,for range and accuracy on the barrel? Thanks

 

[Hef Legend]

In regards to PDI parts, I'd go with the action army stuff. Which is what I've done in my current build.

Depending on FPS/setup, the world is your oyster. For 330 FPS guns, I'd stick a Tanio Koba barrel in it. Anything higher, 6.03+ would be good.

Hop wise, teh action army chamber is brilliant, just assembled mine yesterday

 

[proffrink]

Barrel doesn't really matter brand-wise at 400fps+ so long as it's one of the reputable ones:

• Prometheus/LayLax/First Factory (*not the Delta Strike barrels)
  
• PDI
• EdGI

Bore does matter though, and this is why the Mancraft kit is recommended because you can get away with much wider bores that don't mean having to switch to a more powerful spring and a harsher bolt cycle. Wider bores interfere less with hop, and if you want to go for very heavyweight stuff then you ideally want above 6.05 as you should get slightly more consistent shots when trying to hop, say, a .43g.

On VSRs I'd go with Firefly or Maple Leaf (75o and up) over the Prometheus softer bucking as lately some of the Prometheus QA hasn't been brilliant (plus the ramp design on the Maple Leaf is great).

Once again, really consider the Mancraft kit. Given the amount of upgrades that have to be made to the piston/cylinder without it, it comes close to paying for itself.

 

[Mos]

Once again, really consider the Mancraft kit. Given the amount of upgrades that have to be made to the piston/cylinder without it, it comes close to paying for itself.

Click to shrink...

You keep telling me to go mancraft kit. So I will take it into account. I'd like to know a few things though.

So this mancraft kit, is it just using some sort of gas? Would I need to lug about some sort of massive tank?

Basically how does it work? What does it not need etc. it's not the most common thing on the web. And would it be just as good performance?

It's quite a lot to answer,but I need some help. Thanks

 

[proffrink]

Well if you're asking those questions then maybe you've not been reading what we've typed before: It can run on CO2 or HPA. Importantly, as has been discussed in many places, with the CO2 adapter you can even fit one into the stock of the VSR or into a pouch at the side. Lugging around a bottle isn't the only option as a single bulb gets you between 50-100 shots (depending on various factors, but basically it boils down to how wide your barrel is and how high your desired fps is).

It's just a gas conversion kit. When you pull the trigger the bolt hits a valve and releases the gas for a split second, propelling the BB. The gas - be it CO2 or air - comes from the bolt internals that're included with the kit, so there's not a whole lot special that you need to do. Fitting one can be done in 15 minutes or less (here's an excellent video on fitting one into a VSR by Shizbazki).

Edit:

The three big benefits of it are:

• It has a shorter, lighter pull that arguably makes it slightly more skirmishable as you can fire in quicker succession
• Because the spring needed is much smaller you simply don't need all the upgrades that you'd be expected to throw into a high-fps build like a 90o trigger, cylinder, guide etc. as there isn't there isn't the same stress being put on the internals that would necessitate harder-wearing materials
• Completely adjustable output means you can get dead-on 450, 500 or whatever you like just by twisting the head of the regulator

Also, it doesn't break the bank a huge amount. With the regulator, CO2 adapter, kit, spares and shipping you're looking at about £165. When you consider how much a cylinder and trigger put you back then this isn't a huge figure as - again - you don't need a 90o trigger or fancy cylinder once you've fitted one.

I've also done my own pseudo-build log, but it doesn't focus much on fitting the kit as it does fitting it into the stock (I've also still got to do the R-Hop on the new barrel and document that with the new hop chamber).

Edit #2:

Oh and they do tournament locks now for peace of mind.

 

[Mos]

Thanks proffrink. It really does sound quite good, seeming as you can keep the stock spring and trigger aswell as the cylinder.

So you have a bulb, which holds the gas. These sort of things http://www.airgundepot.com/2311.html but isn't it right, co2 isn't the best in cold weather? As the cold slows particle movement down. Resulting in low pressure? Or is it that in this setup it doesn't muck up like that.

But if I wanted to use HPA, would I have to have HPA bulbs (if that's a thing lol) or a large HPA tank?

I've seen people with large tanks full of some sort of gas, does this mean they have no bulb in their regulator?

This seems pretty cool, but only worry is, in england it's cold, so there's a co2 problem there I think... Unless it doesn't apply in this setup for some reason.

Thanks once again.

 

[proffrink]

Exactly like those. You can get a box of 50 for £16 posted. Given that you're unlikely to get through more than 5 in one game day, this is a pretty good price when put alongside something like a can of green gas that costs you around £10 a pop. The Crosman ones you've linked to there I believe come with silicone inside, and that's not what you want as it could get near your bucking.

Cool down is big killer with both green gas and CO2 (but CO2 isn't nearly as bad as propane/green gas is). You may see a bit of variation, but a quick twist of the regulator can bring the output back to where you want it. The thing is, in a rifle like that you have so much time between shots that cool-down just isn't a thing, so accounting for it is easy. It's not a GBBR or pistol where you're firing maybe 10+rps. You'd never be shooting more than once every 1.5-2 seconds so there's plenty of time for the bulb to warm up again.

HPA bulbs aren't really a thing as air doesn't compress to a liquid like other gasses, so it doesn't expand in the same way. If you wanted HPA then a small (14ci) tank would be fine.

Are the large tanks you're seeing with sniper rifles or other stuff? Comparatively speaking the Mancraft SDiK uses nearly no propellant compared to your average P*/SMP/Daytona Gun, so a big tank just isn't needed. If you're firing more than 200 shots as a sniper in a day then there are bigger problems afoot than gas efficiency. You'd be lucky to get through 4-5 bulbs a day if you're doing everything properly I'd wager, so using HPA just isn't required. I run two large tanks for my LMG, but it would be complete and utter overkill for the SDiK.

Again though, CO2 isn't as affected by the cold as green gas and cool-down is a very minor factor with such a slow rate of fire. At worst you may have to adjust your regulator a tad at the start of the day to make up for the 15fps you've lost to the cold. Heck, you could even stuff a hand warmer into the stock or cheek pad pocket (wherever you choose to put your regulator) if it's that much of a problem.

 

[Mos]

Exactly like those. You can get a box of 50 for £16 over here - I can zip you a link if you're interested.

Cool down is big killer with both green gas and CO2 (but CO2 isn't nearly as bad as propane/green gas is). You may see a bit of variation, but a quick twist of the regulator can bring the output back to where you want it. The thing is, in a rifle like that you have so much time between shots that cool-down just isn't a thing, so accounting for it is easy. It's not a GBBR or pistol where you're firing maybe 10+rps. You'd never be shooting more than once every 1.5-2 seconds so there's plenty of time for the bulb to warm up again.

HPA bulbs aren't really a thing as air doesn't compress to a liquid like other gasses, so it doesn't expand in the same way. If you wanted HPA then a small (14ci) tank would be fine.

Are the large tanks you're seeing with sniper rifles or other stuff? Comparatively speaking the Mancraft SDiK uses nearly no propellant compared to your average P*/SMP/Daytona Gun, so a big tank just isn't needed. If you're firing more than 200 shots as a sniper in a day then there are bigger problems afoot than gas efficiency. You'd be lucky to get through 4-5 bulbs a day if you're doing everything properly I'd wager, so using HPA just isn't required.

Again though, CO2 isn't as affected by the cold as green gas and cool-down is a very minor factor with such a slow rate of fire. At worst you may have to adjust your regulator a tad at the start of the day to make up for the 15fps you've lost to the cold. Heck, you could even stuff a hand warmer into the stock or cheek pad pocket (wherever you choose to put your regulator) if it's that much of a problem.

Click to shrink...

Thanks again proffrink. The only problem I can see is buying bulbs. But, I suppose I could buy in bulk. And that should last me. It's good seeing you can just do a little twist in the regulator and the cold gas problem is abolished.

For those big tanks with which guns, well they were mainly with auto guns.

This is my list, for when I choose to do this mancraft thing.

SDiK conversion kit for TM VSR non 90 degree version

Regulator

CO2 adapter

Maybe some o rings, just in case.

Extras (still good though):

Soft bucking, just one of the top brandy ones...

6.05 barrel, same as bucking, just a top brand one.

I still believe I may need a hop arm to lift those heavier BBs.

P.S it would be quite cool if you could link me to the CO2 bulbs seller, that'd be great.

Thanks for the help. It's much appreciated

 

[proffrink]

I thought the cooldown problem was the only problem you could see? Are you seeing double? Lay off the drink. Rest assured, bulbs are easy and cheap to get. I updated my post with the link and stuff.

When/if you order the kit, just be careful to get the right spares. Some spares are only listed under particular items, whilst others are in their own specific sections. Get spares for the SDiK and regulator. Also consider a tournament lock to put the marshals at ease if they're a bit weird at your site (they're dirt cheap anyway).

As for the barrel: Am I right in thinking that you're worried about mixing and matching brands? Don't worry - all VSR barrel cuts are the same. You could consider an AEG barrel and hop unit to open up the option of R-Hopping but that's beyond the scope of this thread and the difference in performance is negligible.

The Biro mod is enough to sort out your hop arm, or the TDC mod or even just using a Prometheus flat nub and making sure it's sitting at the right angle (lots of different schools of thought on getting the hop to work). These are things you can dabble with in the future. There's far more knowledge when it comes to VSRs on the Airsoft Sniper Forums than there is here.

 

[Mos]

Maybe that is a problem. I'll start a thread about it immediately!

Alright, I'll look into the biro mod, I've heard about it somewhere, maybe even seen a vid on it.

Yes, I was slightly worried about mixing and matching brands, probably comes from when I was upgrading my pc, I didnt want any bottlenecks... I actually emailed Gunman Airsoft just to ask them about the SDiK stuff, I told them it's possible to switch about with the FPS. See what they say, and I'll get a tournament lock, I think I might aswell get one anyways... They're like 50 polish watsits. That's like 10 pound or so.

Thanks again.

 

[proffrink]

PT247 has done it I think. Maybe he'll post here too with results, but I think he got decent ones. Like I say: Lots of ways of doing it. A lot say the hop for the VSR is inherently flawed as it's an arm design with a fulcrum rather than applying pressure completely perpendicular to the bore of the barrel, whilst plenty of others have got good results from either cheap (e.g. Biro mod) or expensive (e.g. Dangerwerx type A and B hop arms) tinkering. Just have a flick through the Sniper Forums and see what the consensus is this week.

 

[Hawkesybaby]

CYMA 702 is compatible with VSR upgrades???

Looking at potential upgrades.... what are good easy changes for a bit more range etc?

Thanks in advance!

 

[proffrink]

It is, yeh. Look into air seal, homemade barrel spacers and buckings (then heavier weight BBs - 0.36g and above - for that extra reach). This forum is better for that sort of stuff: http://www.airsoftsniperforum.com/41-vsr-rifles

Perhaps also consider polishing the barrel with some pipe cleaners, a rotary tool/drill/something that spins and some brasso if you're not up for getting a new barrel.