Ex-Forces

Colin Allen said:
Getting the immensely rich to pay their share of tax might be a good place to start, as would dealing properly with the non-dom tax issue. After that, we would have to look at either significant cuts to other funding or increased taxation.
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I don't disagree, but the problem is the billionaires just leave the country and they tax the middle more.
 
Mtemprell said:
I think with updates the harrier would still be very capable on the front lines. Yes it doesn't have the element of a 5th gen fighter but CAS doesn't rely on Stealth as the enemy already knows your there. It was very good at coming in low and fast and only aircraft we had at the time capable of carrying crv-7 rockets that where very effective in the front line of Afghanistan.

Don't get me wrong it is definitely an ageing airframe but not 100% obsolete as not much has come about that can do what it can. Yes the f35b is VTOL but it cant do what the harrier did, the marine corps wouldn't still be using it if it was obsolete.
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Do we still need aircraft for that though, especially relatively short ranged ones such as the Harrier? While the war in Ukraine may not be a perfect learning model for future large scale wars, it has probably taught us that the nature of the front line and of the battlefield in general has changed massively,

I am also not sure that the experience in Afghanistan was a great learning model for future large scale warfare against a relatively near-peer opponent.
 
There are wider cultural issues around war readiness as well. We need to focus on the military as a stepping stone to future endeavours and a positive viable alternative to the everyone must go to university pipeline that is in effect these days that has left a generation with devalued degrees and no experience. A form of national service (with a caveat that that branch doesn't allow you to be deployed to a warzone) where you can get a year of military training or community work would do a world of good in my opinion. Looking back on my teen years it would have done me a world of good to know there were other options and I imagine it would lead to a lot of people staying on into the army proper.
 
tside said:
There are wider cultural issues around war readiness as well. We need to focus on the military as a stepping stone to future endeavours and a positive viable alternative to the everyone must go to university pipeline that is in effect these days that has left a generation with devalued degrees and no experience. A form of national service (with a caveat that that branch doesn't allow you to be deployed to a warzone) where you can get a year of military training or community work would do a world of good in my opinion. Looking back on my teen years it would have done me a world of good to know there were other options and I imagine it would lead to a lot of people staying on into the army proper.
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I agree with most of that, especially about crap useless degrees but the youth don't want to fight for a country that offers them a crap future. Especially when they see how veterans are neglected and prosecuted.
 
Rickwales said:
I feel like we heading into stormy seas, a financial crash may be coming. Hope I'm wrong. We have trillions of national debt and we don't make anything any more.
You can only squeeze the taxpayers so much.
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We ceased to be a production economy and became a consumer one on the eighties. And when it comes to tax always listen to my dad's experience of the 70's early 80's. He paid a hell of a lot more of his earnings into taxes but he saw a hell of a lot more funded by that like free eye care,dental care, prescriptions etc. Now we have not just a tax burden but the burden of privatised necessities that leads to the working and middle classes feeling poorer than ever.
 
Colin Allen said:
Do we still need aircraft for that though, especially relatively short ranged ones such as the Harrier? While the war in Ukraine may not be a perfect learning model for future large scale wars, it has probably taught us that the nature of the front line and of the battlefield in general has changed massively,

I am also not sure that the experience in Afghanistan was a great learning model for future large scale warfare against a relatively near-peer opponent.
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Ukraine is definitely a big learning curve for all future wars. Suppose looking at that CAS has been replaced by drones launched by troops on the frontline instead of waiting 10-15 minutes for an aircraft to arrive.

Afghanistan id say we definitely learn alot about modern fighting. Just got to look at the initial start of the war we went in with body armour designed for northern Island and open top land rovers and through immediate requirements we learnt what was needed to fight a modern gorilla/terrorist force. I suppose though more modern threats are no longer terror forces and more well funded modern supplied army's. Given all this I still do think the harrier would easily still fit in. But I'm probably bias as I love the airframe as one of my favourite aircraft after typhoon.
 
Rickwales said:
I agree with most of that, especially about crap useless degrees but the youth don't want to fight for a country that offers them a crap future. Especially when they see how veterans are neglected and prosecuted.
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Oh I don't disagree with that and my idea is definitely wooly best case scenario thinking I just like to look for best of all worlds solutions! For example good dose of reality and training would have meant It don't take until thirty for me to get fit. And when I look a my nephew's generation they need that kick in the arse just as much 🤣
 
Rickwales said:
I agree with most of that, especially about crap useless degrees but the youth don't want to fight for a country that offers them a crap future. Especially when they see how veterans are neglected and prosecuted.
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Are veterans neglected and prosecuted though? Some veterans fall through the gaps for various reasons, but there is a lot of support covering a wide range of aspects out there for those who want to engage with it. Over the last 30 years, I have run various programmes for serving or former military personnel aimed at either reskilling them for civilian life or providing validation of their existing skills.

I agree that some degrees are crap and useless (please don't let my employer read that!), but many others are not.
 
Colin Allen said:
Are veterans neglected and prosecuted though? Some veterans fall through the gaps for various reasons, but there is a lot of support covering a wide range of aspects out there for those who want to engage with it. Over the last 30 years, I have run various programmes for serving or former military personnel aimed at either reskilling them for civilian life or providing validation of their existing skills.

I agree that some degrees are crap and useless (please don't let my employer read that!), but many others are not.
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I can only speak to my experience of uni (journalism dont judge) but we moved so many things that used to be learned on the job, like my old course, into a degree structure. So people aren't earning more than they used to be able to while paying out of their arses for the privilege. Whereas my brother joined the Intelligence corps, did something of value, all the while learning stuff that set him up a role in cyber security. If we encouraged practical stuff like that it could help under recruitment and leave space in higher learning institutions for the things they do really well 🙂
 
tside said:
I can only speak to my experience of uni (journalism dont judge) but we moved so many things that used to be learned on the job, like my old course, into a degree structure. So people aren't earning more than they used to be able to while paying out of their arses for the privilege. Whereas my brother joined the Intelligence corps, did something of value, all the while learning stuff that set him up a role in cyber security. If we encouraged practical stuff like that it could help under recruitment and leave space in higher learning institutions for the things they do really well 🙂
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While I agree with you, the problem is that universities have become businesses, many of which are now in dire financial straits. Therefore, they have an incentive to bring in as many students as possible, including vast numbers from overseas who are mostly on Masters programmes, in order to generate revenue. Offering a wide range of degrees has been part of the strategy to do that, but this is now changing with many universities rationalising their catalogue in order to reduce costs. I suspect that a significant change in Higher Education is coming that might see a return to a more rational model.
 
Colin Allen said:
but there is a lot of support covering a wide range of aspects out there
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I think the main issue is alot of the roads for help are not well advertised to you when you are leaving. I've found the British legion is often an underlooked source of help, it's amazing what they can do for people leaving or veterans. Just not well advertised to people what they are collecting for during the poppy appeal and what that actually funds.
 
Mtemprell said:
I think the main issue is alot of the roads for help are not well advertised to you when you are leaving. I've found the British legion is often an underlooked source of help, it's amazing what they can do for people leaving or veterans. Just not well advertised to people what they are collecting for during the poppy appeal and what that actually funds.
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That is very true and I think it is worse for those in more junior ranks.
 
Colin Allen said:
While I agree with you, the problem is that universities have become businesses, many of which are now in dire financial straits. Therefore, they have an incentive to bring in as many students as possible, including vast numbers from overseas who are mostly on Masters programmes, in order to generate revenue. Offering a wide range of degrees has been part of the strategy to do that, but this is now changing with many universities rationalising their catalogue in order to reduce costs. I suspect that a significant change in Higher Education is coming that might see a return to a more rational model.
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Your not wrong at all with any of this but to delve into my thoughts would break politics rules on here 🤣 too bring it back to Airsoft I just hope the next war leads to some cool airsoft replicas!
 
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