SA Edge modding advice

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

Hi guys.  I'm looking to get into modding my RIF but for a newb it's an effin minefiled!!!!  Was hoping for some advice please on mods that are compatible with my model and some tips to get it to where I want it

So I've go a SA E25 EDGE

Specna Arms - SA-E25 EDGE™ Carbine AEG (patrolbase.co.uk)

Which I really like the look of.  When I chrono'd she was down at 299FPS so for me there's room to optimise it within the rules and/or I'd consider pushing it to DMR territory.  Don't really do CQB; spend most time in forestry type scenarios at mid range and am a little frustrated lining someone up and my bb not reaching them....

The E25 is totally standard currently so would like to look into replacement springs (how can I identify which springs are compatible)

I'd also like to look at extending the barrel slightly and if I can do this with a silencer on the current outer barrel and just feed a posh inner barrel down into it so as not to dramatically change the look of the RIF.

Any other relevant mods/advice greatly appreciated  

 

[Speedbird_666]

The E25 is totally standard currently so would like to look into replacement springs (how can I identify which springs are compatible)

I'd also like to look at extending the barrel slightly and if I can do this with a silencer on the current outer barrel and just feed a posh inner barrel down into it so as not to dramatically change the look of the RIF.

Any other relevant mods/advice greatly appreciated  

Easy answer:

- Yes, you can cover a longer inner barrel with a mock silencer. As the E25 is a short barrelled gun, adding a little extra length to the barrel may add extra FPS anyway as the stock gearbox cylinder is probably over-volumed for the barrel - manufacturers don't tend to match them properly on cheaper mass-produced guns.

- If you still don't have the FPS you desire The Specna Orion gearbox has QD spring removal, so I would pick a couple different springs from @ak2m4 and test them out over a chrono. Once you unscrew the buffer tube, spring changes take seconds.

Harder answer:

- I would change all the o-rings and check for a perfect compression parts air seal. This requires a complete disassembly of the Gearbox and then bye bye warranty if that concerns you. But this will give you 'free' FPS in that there is no additional strain to the Gearbox (shell and gears etc.), unlike just throwing in a beefier spring. Absolutely not recommended if this is you first/only gun and you don't have a backup gun or two in case you screw up the disassembly/reassembly

- A good Hop Unit/Hop Rubber/Nub combo will yield better results than just throwing extra FPS at the gun. There is no perfect combination, but a Maple Leaf Macaron, Omega (style) nub and ZCI Rotary hop up is a fairly common, but cost effective, recommendation by many.

- 300 to 350 FPS is not as big a difference as you think, see my previous point. Stock Tokyo Marui guns shoot sub-300FPS, but they seem to perform just fine. The BBs just take a bit longer to reach the target.

 

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

Easy answer:

- Yes, you can cover a longer inner barrel with a mock silencer. As the E25 is a short barrelled gun, adding a little extra length to the barrel may add extra FPS anyway as the stock gearbox cylinder is probably over-volumed for the barrel - manufacturers don't tend to match them properly on cheaper mass-produced guns.

- If you still don't have the FPS you desire The Specna Orion gearbox has QD spring removal, so I would pick a couple different springs from @ak2m4 and test them out over a chrono. Once you unscrew the buffer tube, spring changes take seconds.

Harder answer:

- I would change all the o-rings and check for a perfect compression parts air seal. This requires a complete disassembly of the Gearbox and then bye bye warranty if that concerns you. But this will give you 'free' FPS in that there is no additional strain to the Gearbox (shell and gears etc.), unlike just throwing in a beefier spring. Absolutely not recommended if this is you first/only gun and you don't have a backup gun or two in case you screw up the disassembly/reassembly

- A good Hop Unit/Hop Rubber/Nub combo will yield better results than just throwing extra FPS at the gun. There is no perfect combination, but a Maple Leaf Macaron, Omega (style) nub and ZCI Rotary hop up is a fairly common, but cost effective, recommendation by many.

- 300 to 350 FPS is not as big a difference as you think, see my previous point. Stock Tokyo Marui guns shoot sub-300FPS, but they seem to perform just fine. The BBs just take a bit longer to reach the target.

That's awesome, thanks for the detailed response....

SO to look at some of the points raised there

1,  Mock silencers.  Sounds perfect, a quick scan of patrol base doesn't yield so much.  Plenty of mock suppressors on a 14mm CCW thread.  Are they all capable of housing a new inner barrel or are some of them just for looks?  

2, Springs - perfect, that was just the info I needed.  Just need to idnetify what the standard spring rate is (I think I read M140 somewhere but need to confirm).

3,  Gearbox strip down - I'm defo looking to do this as the vids I've seen on the edge range usually resolve that the shimming and piston greasing isn't up to much so I want to learn to strip it safely and grease appropriately.

4,  Hop Ups - Are these generally interchangeable?  I struggle to find any compatibility info when looking at parts like this?  How do you know if it will fit your gun?

Thanks again for your response

 

[Speedbird_666]

Some quick-ish answers:

1 - A lot of suppressors are just filled with foam or just empty inside. I've only owned a couple myself, and an inner barrel was no problem but there are so many on the market, it's impossible to say what will or won't work. I would say that most suppressors will be fine, but I'm sure there's a few outliers. There are loads of styles, designs and different coloured Silencers on Aliexpress - some are very cheap (under £10) so no great loss if they don't work, but don't forget that they add VAT and duty later in the basket.

2 - No, ~M100-110 is pretty much the UK standard for sub-350FPS full auto AEGS. There are a huge amount of variables to this so I would grab an M100, M105 and maybe an M110 spring and test them over a chrono if you are only looking to change the spring at the moment. I think my Specna had an M95 alternative spring in the box, which is probably what the UK retailer fitted to the gun before flogging it to you.

3 - Does your gun work as-is? If yes, don't open it. Seriously, don't. Not until you have at least 1 spare gun to fall back on. Better yet, buy a cheapo sub-£100 Specna Core as a backup, and learn to tech on that first. Whilst teching guns is not a 'dark art', it's easy to screw it up, and there's nothing worse that not being to play Airsoft as your gun is in bits in a box because you can't get the thing working right again.

4 - Theory: Yes. Real world: Not always. I have several hop units in a spares box that *should* work on any M4, but don't. The Specna is fairly generic though, so you shouldn't have too many troubles, but there are times where a set of files and/or a Dremel might be required. In fact, the Specna has a Rotary hop unit already, I would replace this as the lesser priority and concentrate on the hop rubber/nub instead. The stock brass barrel is also fine, and you can polish them up quite well internally.

 

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

Some quick-ish answers:

1 - A lot of suppressors are just filled with foam or just empty inside. I've only owned a couple myself, and an inner barrel was no problem but there are so many on the market, it's impossible to say what will or won't work. I would say that most suppressors will be fine, but I'm sure there's a few outliers. There are loads of styles, designs and different coloured Silencers on Aliexpress - some are very cheap (under £10) so no great loss if they don't work, but don't forget that they add VAT and duty later in the basket.

2 - No, ~M100-110 is pretty much the UK standard for sub-350FPS full auto AEGS. There are a huge amount of variables to this so I would grab an M100, M105 and maybe an M110 spring and test them over a chrono if you are only looking to change the spring at the moment. I think my Specna had an M95 alternative spring in the box, which is probably what the UK retailer fitted to the gun before flogging it to you.

3 - Does your gun work as-is? If yes, don't open it. Seriously, don't. Not until you have at least 1 spare gun to fall back on. Better yet, buy a cheapo sub-£100 Specna Core as a backup, and learn to tech on that first. Whilst teching guns is not a 'dark art', it's easy to screw it up, and there's nothing worse that not being to play Airsoft as your gun is in bits in a box because you can't get the thing working right again.

4 - Theory: Yes. Real world: Not always. I have several hop units in a spares box that *should* work on any M4, but don't. The Specna is fairly generic though, so you shouldn't have too many troubles, but there are times where a set of files and/or a Dremel might be required. In fact, the Specna has a Rotary hop unit already, I would replace this as the lesser priority and concentrate on the hop rubber/nub instead. The stock brass barrel is also fine, and you can polish them up quite well internally.

That's great thanks  

 

[ENDLES5INFERNO]

As someone who is also new do your research spend a lot of time watching YouTube videos such as negative Airsoft. He is very straight up an belligerent but he’s a great tech. For your gun get a ZCI inner barrel tight bore an a new hop up most certainly. Along with a maple leaf 60* rubber.  if you want to go further get a new spring prob like a m120 if you want a lil more FPS but I wouldn't go above a a m120 with your stock Specna arms motor. Don’t worry too much about internals until you’ve done a fair amount of research. Also (AK2M4 ) he sells parts at a good price and will have what I just recommend you.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

you don't need a longer barrel for range/accuracy, what you need in an inner barrel is quality.

 as speedbird has pointed out putting effort into good air seal and a decent hop setup is going to yield better results. indeed extending your inner barrel can have voluming issues depending on how mad you go with it which will be counterproductive. of course this requires a teardown of the box which i tend not to advise doing without a spare gun, mess something up in reassembly and it's the walk of shame.

also better to do airseal before messing with springs, might well be the spring thats in there has the power and it's just not all of it is going down the barrel after the round. as a rough guide for airseal check your shot-shot variation on the chrono (ie how many fps difference your getting between several shots).

however if you want to stick a can on the end of the gun for looks or to house a tracer go for it, but i personally wouldn't change the barrel length all that much.

you'll also want to feed it good food, a good gun can't make up for bad ammo. for outdoor work i tend to like in the ~.3g range for assault rifles but going heavier won't hurt the performance (will hurt your wallet though)

 

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

Awesome guys thanks for all the comments and advice

For now I'm going to keep the spring standard and although I plan to strip down the box and grease is properly (watching the negative airsoft and BigBirdAirsoft vids they don't seem well greased as standard), I'm going to keep doing my research before I tear the box down.  I'm experienced in precision mechanics and from the vids it doesn't look so bad but caution is the better part of valour and all that....

I've bought a mock suppressor which adds 169mm to the length of the rifle so I will measure the stock inner and see which inner gets me where I need to be.  plan is to use ZCI Tightbore as suggested.  Do you measure the barrels total length or minus the amount that's inserted into the hopup?

The Edge comes with a rotary hopup are we of the opinion that this needs to go?  If so I'm a tad confused how to identify a suitable replacement?  Then as suggested a maple leaf 60* rubber

keep em coming  

 

[Adolf Hamster]

For now I'm going to keep the spring standard and although I plan to strip down the box and grease is properly (watching the negative airsoft and BigBirdAirsoft vids they don't seem well greased as standard), I'm going to keep doing my research before I tear the box down.  I'm experienced in precision mechanics and from the vids it doesn't look so bad but caution is the better part of valour and all that....

stripping a box isn't the worst thing once you get used to it. mainly you're talking fighting many sproingy bits at once (quick release mainspring helps a lot with that issue) and getting stuff all lined up etc.

i still strongly advise leaving the box alone unless you have a backup gun around, but then having insisted on learning that lesson the hard way myself i know that's how some folk have to do it.

however if you do then you can find some tips on the more common checks eg airseal here, some of the bits are a tad out of date, eg better using a spacer disk for aoe than putting things in the cylinder:





remember to keep track of where the shims are placed unless you plan on re-shimming.

if you do plan on re-shimming then remember to do one final check with the gearbox halves together and bolted up tight before putting the rest of the bits in.

although tbh you can get away just fine leaving the shimming/aoe stock in this case and focus on airseal.

I've bought a mock suppressor which adds 169mm to the length of the rifle so I will measure the stock inner and see which inner gets me where I need to be.  plan is to use ZCI Tightbore as suggested.  Do you measure the barrels total length or minus the amount that's inserted into the hopup?

always measured barrels as total length, you don't need to be too exact as long as you're within ±50mm that's close enough.

what can cause an issue is adding/removing a significant length if the gun isn't volumed for it, particularly for shorter barreled guns you'll find ports in the cylinder to reduce the volume to match the barrel. aeg's aren't as sensitive as say HPA's to needing the voluming matched perfectly but it's something to consider.

given barrel length (all other factors being equal) within the extremes (ie really short or really long) doesn't impact performance that much (compared to everything else that does eg hop/airseal/ammo/barrel quality) i tend to suggest just matching the stock length for minimum fuss.

plus if you keep the stock length it means you can add/remove the suppressor depending on how you feel you want your gun to look on a given day.

tl:dr if it were me i'd measure the stock barrel and get the closest length of zci 6.02 stainless to match.

The Edge comes with a rotary hopup are we of the opinion that this needs to go?  If so I'm a tad confused how to identify a suitable replacement?  Then as suggested a maple leaf 60* rubber

hop units themselves can be a tricky one, certainly changing the bucking/nub is a pretty safe option especially for lifting heavier ammo, but if the stock hop unit is holding everything together tightly and is lined up (eg window square over the barrel, no slack in the arm, nub groove isn't at an angle etc) then don't need to worry too much about changing it.

rotary style tend to be preferred over the older dial type for fine adjustment, although that can be worked around.

in terms of bucking/nub my go-to combo is the maple leaf macaron (green or tan generally) with omega nub, sometimes the slightly longer feedlips can cause feeding issues in which case i'll go with plan b of a PDI W-hop (50°), either are good for the .3g range although for heavier you'd want the maple leaf.