• Hi Guest. Welcome to the new forums. All of your posts and personal messages have been migrated. Attachments (i.e. images) and The (Old) Classifieds have been wiped.

    The old forums will be available for a couple of weeks should you wish to grab old images or classifieds listings content. Go Here

    If you have any issues please post about them in the Forum Feedback thread: Go Here

Funniest Airsoft Fallacies

The one that gets me in reviews is when a gun has loads of parts changed before it's fired a shot. Personally I'd like to know how it performs out of the box before spending half the cost of the gun on upgrades. 


more importantly it's a case of why were those parts changed?

granted my recent lct review was one of those cases, but i think i did a decent job of explaining exactly why i had to change out the gears/motor/piston.

 
Exactly. If the review tells me why the upgrades were done, along with before and after comparisons, it gives me a better idea about whether or not the gun is suitable for me

 
Exactly. If the review tells me why the upgrades were done, along with before and after comparisons, it gives me a better idea about whether or not the gun is suitable for me


indeed, some things might not be relevant in all cases.

for example i tend to swap out hop rubbers for softer compounds straight off the bat due to my penchant for firing heavy ammo at low energy, doesn't always mean the stock rubber is bad, just that it doesn't suit my purposes.

 
indeed, some things might not be relevant in all cases.

for example i tend to swap out hop rubbers for softer compounds straight off the bat due to my penchant for firing heavy ammo at low energy, doesn't always mean the stock rubber is bad, just that it doesn't suit my purposes.
I do the same, along with swapping the battery connectors to deans.

My specna didn't fire a single round in anger before being upgraded so I have no clue about the stock performance :D

 
I do the same, along with swapping the battery connectors to deans.

My specna didn't fire a single round in anger before being upgraded so I have no clue about the stock performance :D


neither did the lct, a few dry fires to set the motor height had me onto the horrific state of the gearing pretty quick.

same with the svd, already knew the stock we hop rubber setup for whatever unholy fps it fires out of the box wasn't going to work for the downgraded version i've got so it had a ml autobot in there before even firing a round.

 
Not so much a lie, as a misunderstanding of battery technology...

Negative airsofts's implication that smaller lipos of a lower rating should be used because they are easier on the gun and protect the mosfet/trigger from over amp damage. 

This is a colossal, and dangerous fallacy. I would far rather have a mosfet or a motor crap out than have a stock full of battery fire due to an undersized/overstressed lipo. It would also explain why Negative airsoft doesn't like lipos and why he says they always die on him, having underrated lipos will cause them to voltage sag and it will kill the weakest cell in a pack minimum, at the worst it will cause thermal runaway and eventual combustion.

From years of electric RC car racing, you respect lipos and they are by far the most important and dangerous aspect of an AEG airsoft gun. If you use them, take the time to understand how they work and what will damage them.

Not at all bagging on Negative airsofts channel, he is hugely informative about the mechanical side of airsoft, but his electrical understanding leaves a lot to be desired.

 
Not so much a lie, as a misunderstanding of battery technology...
Plus, if you choose a not so up to the task FET, it's worse to use lower capacity/voltage/C rating lipos, than higher ones. If the voltage drops under load close to the FET's opening voltage, it will easily burn.

 
Plus, if you choose a not so up to the task FET, it's worse to use lower capacity/voltage/C rating lipos, than higher ones. If the voltage drops under load close to the FET's opening voltage, it will easily burn.


Absolutely true. The key is matching the Lipo to it's purpose. Under or overspeccing a lipo has terrible consequences in general for a gun and the battery concerned.

Truth is you should use the largest 'C' rating available in a size of lipo that will fit. If the motor, mosfet or trigger burns out then you need to upgrade the gun until it doesn't fail, not downgrade the lipo so much that the gun survives due to the voltage sag of the lipo under load, as NA's videos suggest. If you cannot upgrade the gun to survive a high powered lipo, then stick to NiMh packs. A lower amp capability but far more capacity for thermal handling is the safer option. 

 
Luke is a tricky one, he does know a lot of stuff and in his defence he isnt afraid to go against the grain of established knowledge based on his own experience. granted whilst its mainly for comedic effect his way of so confidently stating things as fact is tricky because whilst he may have a point at the core of his argument, stating things so bluntly can be easily misinterpreted.

This battery issue is a good example, i have experienced first hand the results of too much amp draw on a lipo that cant take it (fortunately it was during testing and it was noticed before any actual damage to the gun/battery). My solution was to use bigger batteries (same voltage and c rating, just larger capacity).

There are a few issues i definately disagee with him on (like aoe), he makes a big deal about lost cylinder volume yet a lot of the guns he build end up short-stroked or have ported cylinders (so evidently cylinder volume doesnt matter that much....) Of course if you dial down the tone to "lots of people way overdo aoe" it makes much more sense.

Even funnier in that vid he says to use "silent" piston heads which do exactly the same thing only with the mass mounted on the piston, where you dont want mass (without the extremes of swiss cheesing)

But then nobody can be an expert at everything, and we all have the things we thought were true or good ideas or good products that turned out not to be the case, which in fairness is sort of the point of this thread.

 
Luke is a tricky one, he does know a lot of stuff and in his defence he isnt afraid to go against the grain of established knowledge based on his own experience. granted whilst its mainly for comedic effect his way of so confidently stating things as fact is tricky because whilst he may have a point at the core of his argument, stating things so bluntly can be easily misinterpreted.

This battery issue is a good example, i have experienced first hand the results of too much amp draw on a lipo that cant take it (fortunately it was during testing and it was noticed before any actual damage to the gun/battery). My solution was to use bigger batteries (same voltage and c rating, just larger capacity).

There are a few issues i definately disagee with him on (like aoe), he makes a big deal about lost cylinder volume yet a lot of the guns he build end up short-stroked or have ported cylinders (so evidently cylinder volume doesnt matter that much....) Of course if you dial down the tone to "lots of people way overdo aoe" it makes much more sense.

Even funnier in that vid he says to use "silent" piston heads which do exactly the same thing only with the mass mounted on the piston, where you dont want mass (without the extremes of swiss cheesing)

But then nobody can be an expert at everything, and we all have the things we thought were true or good ideas or good products that turned out not to be the case, which in fairness is sort of the point of this thread.
He is pretty much a tech god, and the care he shows to guns despite his gruff exterior and the lengths he goes to for customers I cannot ignore. But this one sticking point about lipos is something I find ridiculously dangerous and to be honest, isn't really a mystery to someone that spends 10 minutes reading up on basic circuit behaviour and Lipo battery tech. So why Luke peddles such incorrect beliefs is a mystery to me, a 5 minute google and a 5 minute read is enough to correct this, yet I have seen this time and time again in his videos, even when there are comments [sometimes mine] in his videos about the dangerous nature of this misinformation. I'll shut up now, but I hope this changes soon, and also that airsoft manufacturers realise that higher quality electronics are a necessary with the claim that lipo batteries are useable with a product, rather than hiding behind a fuse of a 'mosfet' unit. 

 
No dispute about the science, but have you ever seen or heard of a lipo igniting or exploding during use in airsoft?

I'm not saying that it couldn't, but a lot of bad things could happen at a game of airsoft - limb damage, eye injuries, bad pyro kersplosions - and yet we carry on regardless.

 
“The lighter your BBs the further they go but you sacrifice accuracy. The heavier your BBs the more accurate they are but you sacrifice range.” 
 

I’m sure this will sound entirely insane in this day and age. Very much because I started playing forever ago, back when it was rare to see anyone using ammo other than .2s. If someone was popping .25s in their mag they meant business, heaven forbid the fabled Maruzen .29s. But yeah, this was absolutely something I understood to be true.

As heavier weights became more readily available and the general consensus became try different weights until you find the sweet spot. I followed suit and seemingly now use different weights in pretty much every RIF I own (.32s in my MWS, .36-.4s in my mk23, .43s in my VSR and .48s in my SRS). But yeah, certainly the biggest ‘well that was a dumb thing I used to believe’ I can think of.
Quite literally the opposite too for most use cases. Urgh.

 
How about the biggest fallacy of all times, told by the airsofter to himself or other people :

" if i buy this replica/gear, i'll have all i need/want and will defo not need to buy anything else ".
Thats Me is there NO END

 
Quite literally the opposite too for most use cases. Urgh.


It was a... simpler time. Incorrect in every conceivable way, but simpler nevertheless. Knowledge has a habit of complicating things I guess.

 
Funniest airsoft fallacy?

That I’ll “just get the one gun for some garden plinking”.

Haha! ? Aahahaha! Yeah ? Aaahahahahahaaarr ? Ahaha. Uhuhuhurrr ? Uhurr. Huhuhuhurrrrrr ? Aaaaah. Aahahahaaaaaar ? AAAAAAARGH! ? AAAHHAHAHARRGGGH! ? OH GOD MY WALLET!!! MY POOR, EMPTY WALLET ?

 
No dispute about the science, but have you ever seen or heard of a lipo igniting or exploding during use in airsoft?

I'm not saying that it couldn't, but a lot of bad things could happen at a game of airsoft - limb damage, eye injuries, bad pyro kersplosions - and yet we carry on regardless.



Not with my own eyes, but the internet never fails...

Granted this one didn't end too badly as the lipo didn't go the full nuclear as they can, however it could easily end in the total loss of a very expensive gun or considering that most lipos tend to be held in the stock, which is usually next to your face when you are aiming down the sights, terrible facial injuries.

The point is, just because it's uncommon, actively encouraging stressing an undersized lipo to protect other components in a gun is a colossal fallacy. LiPo be an inherently unstable chemistry, and pushing your luck in any way is quite simply asking for it. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
5 hours ago, lilredmachine said:

Have seen this vid. It's quite scary really.

I have,in a silly,bored moment,punctured a RC helicopter lipo.Fuck! Did I move or what! Man it was such a violent reaction when the air got in.Flame,noise,smoke.and it was only 7.2volt.??

Lol

Regards 

 
Back
Top