Need some help...again!!

[Barnett1980]

Hi everyone 

So I posted a week ago and got some great advice about watching as much as I can as been out of airsoft for nearly 20 years.

Anyway I've got a budget of around 450 for an aeg and I really like the look of VFC Avalon range. 

Is it worth paying more for the gun up front or get one cheaper and upgrade? Maybe a gun for 300 and 150 on upgrades.

Sorry for all the questions and I'm on nights at work all week!! 

 

[Guest]

I don’t know about VFC AEG’s, but their GBB’s have fantastic receivers and poor internals

 

[HELIflipper03]

All VFC's have major problems, mainly due to poor internals that have unique parts that are almost impossible to source.

 

[Barnett1980]

Are g&p a good reliable make? Looks like the externals are good and the internals a bit to be desired 

 

[Gepard]

At £450 you could just get an ICS or TM. That's if you've accounted for all the other bits and bobs - eye pro, mags, battery/charger, etc..

You can always buy aftermarket parts and switch things up if there's a certain look you want. Best to get a gun with good internals and worry about what it looks like later imo.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Personally, I go for better internals and not needing to upgrade, spend more on the initial gun purchase.

 

[Musica]

Personally, I go for better internals and not needing to upgrade, spend more on the initial gun purchase.

+1 don't upgrade your guns unless you have spare guns. 

Get a good gun and honestly in your price range you can get more than just a good gun you can have optional features like stop on empty, ambi controls etc. 

 

[Tackle]

Not looking to derail the thread, but I'm puzzled why so many "players", even those that haven't actually bought a gun yet, keep asking about upgrading ?, when so many brands & models available actually work quite/very well straight from the box, even the budget stuff.

+1 don't upgrade your guns unless you have spare guns. 

Agree, too many people seem happy to pay someone over the odds to get a negligible improvement on stock guns, or alternatively attempt an unnecessary "upgrade" themselves that just leaves them with no working guns.

Altogether now:

          "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" ?

 

[Lozart]

Not looking to derail the thread, but I'm puzzled why so many "players", even those that haven't actually bought a gun yet, keep asking about upgrading ?, when so many brands & models available actually work quite/very well straight from the box, even the budget stuff.

There does seem to be a very common misconception that nothing is "great out of the box". Across the whole range of guns I have/had I don't think there were any that I couldn't use straight off (apart from my Cyma AK but that was shooting at 420FPS when I got it!). A lot of this seems to have come across from the US where everybody wants to upgrade to 400FPS because they can then complains that the stock gears on a TM aren't rated high enough and are therefore shit.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Not looking to derail the thread, but I'm puzzled why so many "players", even those that haven't actually bought a gun yet, keep asking about upgrading ?, when so many brands & models available actually work quite/very well straight from the box, even the budget stuff.

i think it's because in many cases they're playing with rental guns against people with much better hardware, and asking around it's the old "ahh yes i upgraded my ... which gives me ...."

i am very much the sort of person who tinkers a lot and i've had more than enough ruined game days to show for it, but that's the side of the hobby i enjoy so each to their own. on the plus side i can be relatively fearless buying secondhand or brands with reputations for poor internals when i know i'll almost certainly be ripping it out anyway.

that said, i've met brand new guns that haven't performed great, for example even the mighty cyma ak wont do so well when it comes out of the box with a crap air seal on the piston o-ring. on the flip side, a well put together gun that hasn't been messed with can still be excellent after years of service.

 

[Tackle]

There does seem to be a very common misconception that nothing is "great out of the box". Across the whole range of guns I have/had I don't think there were any that I couldn't use straight off (apart from my Cyma AK but that was shooting at 420FPS when I got it!). A lot of this seems to have come across from the US where everybody wants to upgrade to 400FPS because they can then complains that the stock gears on a TM aren't rated high enough and are therefore shit.

Agree, I've owned loads of guns, probably 30+ Rifles, & every one did what it was supposed to do without ripping them open.

to new players, find what you like the look of, check out as many reviews of it you can find, THEN ask for forum members opinions before pressing "buy", & then play at least a couple of gamedays with it before throwing money at it, you probably won't need to ?.

 

[Lozart]

, find what you like the look of, check out as many reviews of it you can find, THEN ask for forum members opinions before pressing "buy"

^^^^THIS

I've lost count of how many threads start with "I've just bought this, is it any good?". If you don't know if something is shit, why did you buy it?

 

[Musica]

Not looking to derail the thread, but I'm puzzled why so many "players", even those that haven't actually bought a gun yet, keep asking about upgrading ?,

I think people see it as an advantage or an edge or their gun is now custom built just for them. 

Some of it probably stems from thinking they can get the absolute best performance from a 20 quid upgrade on a moderate gun which just is not true. It's not like building a PC where you can get more for less if you build/upgrade instead of pre-built. Perhaps some of it comes from seeing custom hi-capas performing well and assuming it translates to every weapon/platform just buy parts and money= performance. I will be honest I don't like my guns to shoot too low on the FPS as I'm fed up of cheaters recently and want to know they are paying a price for not taking hit after hit. 

Lozart is probably right as well but the US sell 400fps guns as well so they can just buy a krytac wired to deans at 400fps~ https://www.evike.com/products/63621/ or a vfc or a kwa. 

Someones first gun should be a BORING but reliable and well performing AEG probably an M4 if I am honest but there are a few other options if you really want to be different. Then get something you like the look of or have a soft spot for and if it performs worse or breaks then you always have your backup reliable one to use.  I wanted a P90 but I read all I could about them and compared against other well talked about guns and P90s just didn't  seem worth the money to me. 

 

[Barnett1980]

Thanks for all the replies everyone it's all changed somewhat from 20 years ago when it was TM and that's it!!! 

I'm not technical in anyway so I'm going to get the so called best out of box that I can and then go from there

I've been put off VFC stuff due to limited parts etc and someone just mentioned ICS. Are these any good? Again sorry for all the questions but 20 years out of the game has left me confused!!!

 

[Lozart]

Thanks for all the replies everyone it's all changed somewhat from 20 years ago when it was TM and that's it!!! 

I'm not technical in anyway so I'm going to get the so called best out of box that I can and then go from there

Honestly, if you like the Avalon, get an Avalon. Nothing at that price point will be "shit" and you can replace parts as they wear out or as you identify any short comings that are actually down to the gun and not you. Don't get sucked in by fanboy screeching.

 

[Tackle]

Had to look up the Avalon, not surprised to see it's another m4 variant, that being the case, if vfc have issues then I'd say go with a brand that doesn't, if it's the look that got your attention, I'm sure there are plenty of other brands with very similar designs but better internals.

 You mention ics, great brand but they aren't entirely compatible with many of the cosmetic items that peeps dress their guns up with, size variations, plus internally they have their own unique split gearbox design, I own one but have never actually worked on it so not sure how different they are from regular v2 boxes, either working on & whether all the moving parts are unique to ics ? (But give it 5 mins and someone will tell us ?)

 You've got a good budget, but if you don't want all the bells & whistles, then only spending half that will get you something than meets your need while you get back in to the game, leaving funds for all the essential kit, as well as the stuff you "NEED" .

edit: in fact, here you go, I'd buy this, ready to go with loads of extra bits you can either use or sell on, & from a well respected forum member who won't screw you over, & with what you've got left he's got a nice SL8 going cheap, covers all your long gun needs ?..........

 

[Musica]

The issues people speak of are probably that the parts aren't TM Spec thus they must suck as people can't drop in new parts  for "upgrades". I'm sure someone has a VFC avalon that didn't work on day 1 or broke on day 1 happens to everyone. Unless there is a well known issue with them like the Evos gears stripping then they will perform fine. 

 

[Lozart]

I've been put off VFC stuff due to limited parts etc and someone just mentioned ICS. Are these any good? Again sorry for all the questions but 20 years out of the game has left me confused!!!

ICS are good, also take a look at Specna Arms.

 

[hitmanNo2]

All VFC's have major problems, mainly due to poor internals that have unique parts that are almost impossible to source.

Some new VFCs are actually very, very good.  Mainly pistols like VP9, HK45, FNS etc.

 

[Rogerborg]

 also take a look at Specna Arms

Yarp.

Specna Arms EDGE toy guns have a ton of good stuff in them.

If you want to spend more, send your Specna to Luke at Negative Airsoft and ask him to put a Gate Warfet in it, and to set it up for pre-cock and 3-round bursts.