How many chances?

[Arwen]

I get so sick of the non-hit taking by a few select players now that I simply don't even bother shooting them any more. I just move and pick another target. 

There are way more important things to get wound up over in my view! 

Most players I have found start behaving themselves after a quiet word and/or a few test shots from Marshalls. 

As for making a gun hot after being chrono'ed. They should be sent packing if found out in my view. That is a deliberate and thought out action on their part to get around the safety rules.

No accident or mistake. 

 

[Prisce]

See non hit takers are my favourite. But only when I’m with my team, we are airsofters, we enjoy the sport, when some little prick thinks he’s going to ruin our day we do our best to ruin his. 

We spent an entire game day just hunting 1 guy and not letting him leave his spawn area, now you may say if he’s not taking his hits it wouldn’t matter, but when you have 3 high RPS AEGs, and 2 accurate 490fps snipers using heavy BBs aiming for the soft spots they usually buck up their ideas.

We have made a group quit before doing the exact same.  

We have seen many players get banned too, and most sites nowadays are shit hot at getting rid of the scum, if they aren’t, they tend not to get any returning custom from us and everyone we know.

I have seen a Marshall give “god mode” to a player when the Marshall saw this guy cheat, this to me was bang out of order, but I will say it worked.

 

[clumpyedge]

See non hit takers are my favourite. But only when I’m with my team, we are airsofters, we enjoy the sport, when some little prick thinks he’s going to ruin our day we do our best to ruin his. 

We spent an entire game day just hunting 1 guy and not letting him leave his spawn area, now you may say if he’s not taking his hits it wouldn’t matter, but when you have 3 high RPS AEGs, and 2 accurate 490fps snipers using heavy BBs aiming for the soft spots they usually buck up their ideas.

While I appreciate what you're saying I don't think this is the route to go down. You have marshals on site for a reason, if they don't do anything speak to the site owner. If they don't do anything talk with your feet and don't bother with the site again.

Problem I have with non-hit takers is if I shoot a guy and find him to not take hits I generally move off an go somewhere else (if a marshal isn't close enough to be able to tell without affecting my game), I've had it before when I have done that though and then been killed by the very guy I was getting frustrated with. I haven't been to a site yet where marshals aren't proactive though so maybe I'm just lucky.

 

[Musica]

While I appreciate what you're saying I don't think this is the route to go down. You have marshals on site for a reason, if they don't do anything speak to the site owner. If they don't do anything talk with your feet and don't bother with the site again.

Problem I have with non-hit takers is if I shoot a guy and find him to not take hits I generally move off an go somewhere else (if a marshal isn't close enough to be able to tell without affecting my game), I've had it before when I have done that though and then been killed by the very guy I was getting frustrated with. I haven't been to a site yet where marshals aren't proactive though so maybe I'm just lucky.

It's the exact advice given at my site par not coming back. Speak to a marshal, if your not happy with the marshal speak with the boss.  As a player I think it's important to report your own team to a marshal. Don't directly call them out it does nothing you have no power over them. 

I often report my own team for using radios when dead or other such infringements. Things the other team wouldn't see.

 

[clumpyedge]

It's the exact advice given at my site par not coming back. Speak to a marshal, if your not happy with the marshal speak with the boss.  As a player I think it's important to report your own team to a marshal. Don't directly call them out it does nothing you have no power over them. 

I often report my own team for using radios when dead or other such infringements. Things the other team wouldn't see.

I wouldn't openly say to people if you don't like what we do or how we do things you can do one but I have left sites mid morning because I didn't like the way things were done/things haven't improved after complaints from myself and others. No big deal to me but luckily these days that few and far between.

We have players doing exactly the same to their own team and I've also done so when playing as well. Couldn't give a shit if someone is on my team, cheating is cheating.

 

[Druid799]

My home site ,

you DELIBERATELY run a hot gun ? Your gone .

non hit taking ? 1st report , the marshals will keep an eye open for you in particular , 2nd (must be from a different player) they have a word with you about it , 3rd report OR witnessed by a marshal you get double arm banded with very bright tape .

overly aggressive (again multiple reports or witnessed by a marshal) ? You sit out the next game , to ‘contemplate’ it’s just a game not real life .

Also have a strict policy on safety , you walk in to the safe zone with a mag in or out of it without your eye pro on you will get shouted at very loudly so everybody hears , you repeat the offense you will be spoken too and you will miss the next game or if they do think your not taking safety onboard then your gone and have seen that happen , young lad repeatedly walked in to the safe zone with the obligatory puke green L96 with a mag in , when spoken too was VERY dismissive of the safety aspect and didn’t see what the problem was as it’s a bolt action ! so mummy was phoned to come and pick him up , when she did arrive we soon realized where his entitled attitude came from ! ?‍

now there are a quite a few regular players that the head marshal will take there word if they say a player is transgressing and will speak too the player off the bat without having them watched first BUT the number of players I’ve seen him do this with is quite small and I’ve also seen the same players be nominated as player marshals on very busy game days when there isn’t enough to police the whole site effectively , if you are asked then you don’t have the power to sanction a play for rule breaking in game but your word is treated as the word of a full marshal (only exception is with a safety issue). And if you are asked you do get either free lunch or a free game next time you play , plus if you are involved in any rule breaking yourself then you won’t be asked again , so there is an incentive to be as honest and as impartial as possible?

 

[clumpyedge]

My home site ,

you DELIBERATELY run a hot gun ? Your gone .

non hit taking ? 1st report , the marshals will keep an eye open for you in particular , 2nd (must be from a different player) they have a word with you about it , 3rd report OR witnessed by a marshal you get double arm banded with very bright tape .

overly aggressive (again multiple reports or witnessed by a marshal) ? You sit out the next game , to ‘contemplate’ it’s just a game not real life .

Also have a strict policy on safety , you walk in to the safe zone with a mag in or out of it without your eye pro on you will get shouted at very loudly so everybody hears , you repeat the offense you will be spoken too and you will miss the next game or if they do think your not taking safety onboard then your gone and have seen that happen , young lad repeatedly walked in to the safe zone with the obligatory puke green L96 with a mag in , when spoken too was VERY dismissive of the safety aspect and didn’t see what the problem was as it’s a bolt action ! so mummy was phoned to come and pick him up , when she did arrive we soon realized where his entitled attitude came from ! ?‍

now there are a quite a few regular players that the head marshal will take there word if they say a player is transgressing and will speak too the player off the bat without having them watched first BUT the number of players I’ve seen him do this with is quite small and I’ve also seen the same players be nominated as player marshals on very busy game days when there isn’t enough to police the whole site effectively , if you are asked then you don’t have the power to sanction a play for rule breaking in game but your word is treated as the word of a full marshal (only exception is with a safety issue). And if you are asked you do get either free lunch or a free game next time you play , plus if you are involved in any rule breaking yourself then you won’t be asked again , so there is an incentive to be as honest and as impartial as possible?

Again I get what you are saying but asking players who attend regularly to be player marshals in my opinion just doesn't work. I don't play at the site I work at simply because I wouldn't want to even run the risk of people complaining of preferential treatment or put the ethos of the staff and rules into question (to some extent). I like the idea of the bright tape but at the same time I feel if they don't listen to the advice on the second occasion at our place they just get sin binned and sent back to safe zone.

We have staff that if we are busy will leave the safe zone down a person so we can have an extra body on the ground so we can police large numbers of players, having said that I cant remember the ratio of marshals to players off the top of my head that is required by our insurance (and I'm sure everyone's may be different).

On another note has anyone ever encountered either physical or verbal aggression at a game before?

 

[Rogerborg]

There has to be an element of giving people chances

For hit dodging, or cheat calling, sure, mistakes are made, and adrenaline Tourette's does kick in.

My issue is that sites should say only what they mean, and mean everything that they say.

Per the example above, if chronoing is declared to be mandatory, and people are given every chance and repeated instructions to get tested and tagged, including right before the first game, then finding an untagged gun in game should be a go-home offence.  No testing in game, no excuses, no need for a lecture even (they didn't listen before, why would they listen now?), just bounce them off site and accept the sour grapes Facebook review that will inevitably follow.

Same for hot guns.  I'm not sure how "deliberate" factors into it, since nobody to whom that applies is going to fess up to it.  It's hot, or it's not, the BB and eyepro doesn't care about the intent.  Granted, there's an edge case for gas guns that were tested cold and then heated up during the day.  But again, chronos tend to be available throughout the day, and if you're in doubt, you can test before a game.

 

[Asomodai]

So... I hold my hand up and say that early on in my airsoft career, if I got hit from a distance and barely felt it I would have carried on. I am sure many people have done this, especially if they had walked for a long distance beforehand. I assure you this only happened a couple of times! I have never been called out for non hit taking.

The reason why I stopped? ...It sounds a bit selfish but by ignoring hits, it felt like it spoiled MY enjoyment for the game more then spoiled the game for my fellow players.

There is just no point in cheating unless you're getting some sort of narcissistic thrill in having an unfair advantage and completely ignoring any feelings of guilt. 

If people do not understand what guilt is, it is unlikely they will stop not hit taking as they would deflect the blame elsewhere and just move to another site. So if it was a persistent offender I would encourage a full ban/Zero Tolerence. If it's just the one off, pull them up on it, "humiliate" them a bit and see what they do after. Lapses in judgement happen all the time, even to seasoned players in the heat of the moment. 

Of course after those first few skirmishes I now always call my hits, even to my detriment. When its a CQB, even if I hit the guy first and then he pulls the trigger and hits me, I still call the hit and I don't get anywhere! 

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

Again I get what you are saying but asking players who attend regularly to be player marshals in my opinion just doesn't work. I don't play at the site I work at simply because I wouldn't want to even run the risk of people complaining of preferential treatment or put the ethos of the staff and rules into question (to some extent). I like the idea of the bright tape but at the same time I feel if they don't listen to the advice on the second occasion at our place they just get sin binned and sent back to safe zone.

We have staff that if we are busy will leave the safe zone down a person so we can have an extra body on the ground so we can police large numbers of players, having said that I cant remember the ratio of marshals to players off the top of my head that is required by our insurance (and I'm sure everyone's may be different).

On another note has anyone ever encountered either physical or verbal aggression at a game before?

People employed as player marshals can be an advantage but you have to be careful who you choose as some will power trip. We used it to great effect but then we were very strict on how we conducted the role and anybody who abused it would get banned from fulfilling that again. Players should never just get picked though.

Bright tape on a cheater is parading and goes against what I believe is respectful treatment.

As for witnessing aggressive behaviour yes a few times, it is what pushed me into marshalling.

 

[clumpyedge]

For hit dodging, or cheat calling, sure, mistakes are made, and adrenaline Tourette's does kick in.

My issue is that sites should say only what they mean, and mean everything that they say.

Per the example above, if chronoing is declared to be mandatory, and people are given every chance and repeated instructions to get tested and tagged, including right before the first game, then finding an untagged gun in game should be a go-home offence.  No testing in game, no excuses, no need for a lecture even (they didn't listen before, why would they listen now?), just bounce them off site and accept the sour grapes Facebook review that will inevitably follow.

Same for hot guns.  I'm not sure how "deliberate" factors into it, since nobody to whom that applies is going to fess up to it.  It's hot, or it's not, the BB and eyepro doesn't care about the intent.  Granted, there's an edge case for gas guns that were tested cold and then heated up during the day.  But again, chronos tend to be available throughout the day, and if you're in doubt, you can test before a game.

Fully agree on the chrono issue. Anything to do with safety is paramount, we regularly test players in the game zone either as they are at their respawn or on their way back to it so not to cause any delay in being back in game too much. Testing in game is appropriate but only when the gun has passed chrono but for example the case of gas guns they can increase throughout the day especially if the player doesn't have use of some form of power restriction i.e. NPAS.

Personally speaking I'd like to run our site chrono for a certain amount of time in the morning (say between 8:45-9:45) that's a full hour and considering we open from 8:15 that's plenty and something I'm asking to implement. Anyone that doesn't chrono in that time frame doesn't play the first game. It shouldnt be mine and everyone else's fault you either cant turn up to site on time or have a battery in a gun with a few beebs in a mag and just get it done and out the way. The amount of people that seem to have their priorities mixed up when arriving on site beggers belief. Why spend up until the last minute sorting your shit out when its as simple as couple of taps on a speed loader or a quick pour from a bottle and straight over, after that you can play around with pouches and shit all you like up until brief. You are there all day so you can discuss what brand you like, what your K/D ratio and all that other bollocks later.

Sorry.. rant

People employed as player marshals can be an advantage but you have to be careful who you choose as some will power trip. We used it to great effect but then we were very strict on how we conducted the role and anybody who abused it would get banned from fulfilling that again. Players should never just get picked though.

Bright tape on a cheater is parading and goes against what I believe is respectful treatment.

As for witnessing aggressive behaviour yes a few times, it is what pushed me into marshalling.

Fair enough, I would rather that person be employed by the site that way any recourse can be directly attributable to the site and not just someone they have picked to do the job on the day (fair enough you may know them well but how do other non regular players distinguish them from normal staff?)

Agree on the bright tape thing. Quiet word is all that's needed, if its not enough player should get sin binned or chucked depending on issue.

Ever had someone be aggressive to you while acting as a marshal? I had a player once call family members to come down to "sort me out" because he didn't like being told to shut up during the safety brief after being told twice politely to stop talking.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

Fair enough, I would rather that person be employed by the site that way any recourse can be directly attributable to the site and not just someone they have picked to do the job on the day (fair enough you may know them well but how do other non regular players distinguish them from normal staff?)

Agree on the bright tape thing. Quiet word is all that's needed, if its not enough player should get sin binned or chucked depending on issue.

Ever had someone be aggressive to you while acting as a marshal? I had a player once call family members to come down to "sort me out" because he didn't like being told to shut up during the safety brief after being told twice politely to stop talking.

All the PMs carried high vis in a dump pouch so it could be pulled when necessary. If you did pull it you went back to regen after so no one could accuse you of using it to your advantage.

Had a few players try and argue in a manner I didn't appreciate but outright aggression towards me not really. Saw a couple get aggressive with marshals that I had to step in on though. I have a very no nonsense demeanor that I think defuses people from getting too stroppy.

 

[clumpyedge]

All the PMs carried high vis in a dump pouch so it could be pulled when necessary. If you did pull it you went back to regen after so no one could accuse you of using it to your advantage.

Had a few players try and argue in a manner I didn't appreciate but outright aggression towards me not really. Saw a couple get aggressive with marshals that I had to step in on though. I have a very no nonsense demeanor that I think defuses people from getting too stroppy.

That's a fair way of doing it!

We have a zero tolerance on it but that doesn't mean it doesn't sometimes catch us off guard when some man baby throws his toys out the pram, generally it doesn't happen but I would say over the years I've been marshaling i could count on one hand it has.

 

[Druid799]

Again I get what you are saying but asking players who attend regularly to be player marshals in my opinion just doesn't work. I don't play at the site I work at simply because I wouldn't want to even run the risk of people complaining of preferential treatment or put the ethos of the staff and rules into question (to some extent). I like the idea of the bright tape but at the same time I feel if they don't listen to the advice on the second occasion at our place they just get sin binned and sent back to safe zone.

We have staff that if we are busy will leave the safe zone down a person so we can have an extra body on the ground so we can police large numbers of players, having said that I cant remember the ratio of marshals to players off the top of my head that is required by our insurance (and I'm sure everyone's may be different).

On another note has anyone ever encountered either physical or verbal aggression at a game before?

Hand on heart I can say I’ve never seen or heard of any accusations of favoritism or power tripping happening , as I said the only time they can step in is a safety issue rest of the time there purely extra ‘eyes and ears’ on the field for the marshaling team .

just being a regular won’t get you the job you have to be well known AND respected by other players to even be considered to be asked , and believe me if even for a minute he thought you were abusing the position the boss would nip that in the bud VERY quickly ! 

 

[clumpyedge]

Hand on heart I can say I’ve never seen or heard of any accusations of favoritism or power tripping happening , as I said the only time they can step in is a safety issue rest of the time there purely extra ‘eyes and ears’ on the field for the marshaling team .

just being a regular won’t get you the job you have to be well known AND respected by other players to even be considered to be asked , and believe me if even for a minute he thought you were abusing the position the boss would nip that in the bud VERY quickly ! 

Fair play, I assumed you meant they took full marshaling responsibilities.

 

[Nicky blue eyes]

So... I hold my hand up and say that early on in my airsoft career, if I got hit from a distance and barely felt it I would have carried on. I am sure many people have done this, especially if they had walked for a long distance beforehand. I assure you this only happened a couple of times! I have never been called out for non hit taking.

The reason why I stopped? ...It sounds a bit selfish but by ignoring hits, it felt like it spoiled MY enjoyment for the game more then spoiled the game for my fellow players.

There is just no point in cheating unless you're getting some sort of narcissistic thrill in having an unfair advantage and completely ignoring any feelings of guilt. 

If people do not understand what guilt is, it is unlikely they will stop not hit taking as they would deflect the blame elsewhere and just move to another site. So if it was a persistent offender I would encourage a full ban/Zero Tolerence. If it's just the one off, pull them up on it, "humiliate" them a bit and see what they do after. Lapses in judgement happen all the time, even to seasoned players in the heat of the moment. 

Of course after those first few skirmishes I now always call my hits, even to my detriment. When its a CQB, even if I hit the guy first and then he pulls the trigger and hits me, I still call the hit and I don't get anywhere! 

I've now played for about 3 years  and also made some dodgy calls on hits early on. You live and learn... hopefully. And not always listening to a briefing properly i.e. team a has unlimited lives team b doesnt etc. If its a first time thing then I think a  quiet word soon sorts it out. No need to embarrass people or humiliate them. If they keep doing it the yes take things up a notch. As you say even experianced players make bad desicions from time to time. To me the term cheat means someone that breaks the rules habitually.  Just my take on it.

 

[Seth_Erebor]

So it seems i'm not alone then in seeing sites with all mouth and no trousers.

They made a big talk at the start of the day about spot checking folk, cant say i saw or heard of it happen though.

The hit taking is a tricky one, i know a common one is whining about rentals doing it but tbh i've never had too many issues with that and when it has happened it's been more a case of "aww its cute he tried".

However i have absolutely zero sympathy for folk who are experienced doing it. We've all had those hits we didn't feel but this guy is something else, 1j might not sound like much energy but i'm pretty sure at 3 feet in the ribcage with nothing but a ubacs to stop it you'd notice.

I'd love to vote with my wallet, indeed i did for a few months, but sadly choices for outdoor sites in my area aren't exactly abundant.

What kind of player numbers would an outdoor site get near you?

 

[Pdubyuh]

We've had people out for a game, a dead player was standing talking to me, a marshal with his hand up and a younger player ran up and Moscarted him in the face that was a game out to calm down. We've also banned people, there was a player who we had loads of reports about non hit taking so we test fired him and he turned round and offered out the person that had just shot him, 5 marshals were on him like white on rice, we told him it was a test fire as we has loads of reports about him, he then offered to fight the marshals so it was "pack  up and sod off and dont come back" 

 

[Rogerborg]

What kind of player numbers would an outdoor site get near you?

Intensifies...

 

[Seth_Erebor]

Intensifies...

yeah, wasn't very subtle, was it. lol