FPS limit?

[Tommikka]

Educate a paintballer ..... why have a policy of not chronographing green gas pistols?

Is it inconsistency & adjustment?

Sounds like a problem area to me.

For example with co2 we would set a lower chrono limit to allow for fluctuation going up

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Educate a paintballer ..... why have a policy of not chronographing green gas pistols?

Is it inconsistency & adjustment?

Sounds like a problem area to me.

For example with co2 we would set a lower chrono limit to allow for fluctuation going up

Because green gas pistols aren't as loud and scary as co2 pistols so they can't be hot.

At least that seems to be as much logic as any site i've asked has put into it.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

You only have to keep an eye out for the gas guns and pistols with suppressors and keep a stash of heavier ammo to test those players.

Aeg's don't really joule creep to any significant degree without a lot of pre-meditated setup so the ol' .2's is fine here, as are most pistols with standard barrels.

Would still take too long and then people would just test on lower gas and remove suppressors.

 In a perfect world it would be easy but reality is very different.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Would still take too long and then people would just test on lower gas and remove suppressors.

 In a perfect world it would be easy but reality is very different.

you check the suppressor, if it's got a barrel extension in it/under it it'll almost certainly be hot.

better than not checking at all......

 

[Tiercel]

As an example, in my ignorance I added a nice new tightbore extended barrel to my WE G19 running through a suppresor. The site I used to play at didnt chrono pistols so no big deal I thought.

Then I went  to the Mall, where they did chrono it. And it was running at 390fps on 0.2s with green gas.

Whoops. ? Its now been sitting on my gun rack for months gathering dust as I havent got round to buying a new/original sized barrel for it and misplaced the original. 

 

[Immortal]

why have a policy of not chronographing green gas pistols?

It's rare that a green gas pistol is over the limits, most simply aren't (generally) capable.

If using red gas it may push it over or on green using a longer/extended barrel.

Black gas will more than likely take it over.

(Black gas can be known as Co2 but in airsoft it doesn't always seem so)
Co2 can vary wildly from pistol to pistol (design & brand).

 

[Adolf Hamster]

As an example, in my ignorance I added a nice new tightbore extended barrel to my WE G19 running through a suppresor. The site I used to play at didnt chrono pistols so no big deal I thought.

Then I went  to the Mall, where they did chrono it. And it was running at 390fps on 0.2s with green gas.

Whoops. ? Its now been sitting on my gun rack for months gathering dust as I havent got round to buying a new/original sized barrel for it and misplaced the original. 

yep, this is a case in point- you didn't even realise you were running hot.

i made the same mistake although luckily i did think to chrono it before chucking the old barrel so i now have a long pistol barrel sitting around that i can't use.

would have been worse if you'd been running heavier ammo as a longer barrel is more time for joule creep to take effect.

 

[Tiercel]

yep, this is a case in point- you didn't even realise you were running hot.

i made the same mistake although luckily i did think to chrono it before chucking the old barrel so i now have a long pistol barrel sitting around that i can't use.

would have been worse if you'd been running heavier ammo as a longer barrel is more time for joule creep to take effect.

I normally use .25s or .28s in my pistol depending on what I have available at the time  ? the 390 is just what it chronod with the .2s the mall put in for you. Never played at a site that measures in joules yet so I have no idea what it would actually be doing in energy terms.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

you check the suppressor, if it's got a barrel extension in it/under it it'll almost certainly be hot.

better than not checking at all......

Again how much time do you think chrono marshals have?

There is no guarantee that players won't just remove them before chrono as I have said before.

Honestly there is a reason why it is done that way. Try working chrono and then talk.

 

[Musica]

my site doesn't allow anything over a 0.25g bb guess thats how they deal with creep. Indoor site so not like it's a crime.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Again how much time do you think chrono marshals have?

There is no guarantee that players won't just remove them before chrono as I have said before.

Honestly there is a reason why it is done that way. Try working chrono and then talk.

There's never any guarantee, but as pointed out at least if your using player weights and keeping an eye out for certain types of guns then you'll catch out the honest folk who genuinely dont understand what they've done.

If you dont have enough time to do it for a large group then the obvious follow up question is how many marshalls are there and how the hell do you hope to police any other aspect of airsoft cheating?

 

[Tiercel]

There is no guarantee that players won't just remove them before chrono as I have said before.

Heading back to the safe zone and changing the inner barrel on a pistol post chrono would be a bit suspect though

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Heading back to the safe zone and changing the inner barrel on a pistol post chrono would be a bit suspect though

He's referring to the type that has the extension mounted to the suppressor.

Easy to check if it's mounted and sure folk could put them on post chrono but that's no more difficult than switching guns midday, switching bolts in a sniper rifle or twiddling the regulator on an hpa, which is why the follow up of keeping the chrono on you and random spot checks in the field is also important.

Sure cheaters gonna cheat, but the whole .2's chrono'ing thing can accidentally let even honest folk end up running hot.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

Heading back to the safe zone and changing the inner barrel on a pistol post chrono would be a bit suspect though

It is more the suppressors with an internal barrel that are the issue. Do know of a guy who did try and swap out his pistol innards after chrono and run power up gas.

There's never any guarantee, but as pointed out at least if your using player weights and keeping an eye out for certain types of guns then you'll catch out the honest folk who genuinely dont understand what they've done.

If you dont have enough time to do it for a large group then the obvious follow up question is how many marshalls are there and how the hell do you hope to police any other aspect of airsoft cheating?

Jesus christ buddy you don't a clue. Been in on more discussions with people who actually know what it is like to run a chrono than I care to remember and guess what everyone agrees current method is best. 

A site like the mall used to run 10+ marshals and you would have 4 or 5 on chrono for a 100 players and no way on earth would that be feasible. Players would just lie about weight remove suppressors and run low power gas if they wanted to cheat. The best method is as it is done single weight so standard test.

Let it go and get the fact your idea while well meaning is not really workable for any site that has a large-ish group of players.

 

[Tiercel]

Theyre quite uncommon arent they? Ive only seen that kind as the Angry gun powerup type for the MP9/MP7. Never seen one for a pistol.

That being said, having a suppressor on a pistol looks really cool, but every time Ive used one (inner barrel or not) its been totally impractical and the extra weight on the outer barrel causes cycling issues. 

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Jesus christ buddy you don't a clue. Been in on more discussions with people who actually know what it is like to run a chrono than I care to remember and guess what everyone agrees current method is best. 

A site like the mall used to run 10+ marshals and you would have 4 or 5 on chrono for a 100 players and no way on earth would that be feasible. Players would just lie about weight remove suppressors and run low power gas if they wanted to cheat. The best method is as it is done single weight so standard test.

Let it go and get the fact your idea while well meaning is not really workable for any site that has a large-ish group of players.

Like i said originally- cant be arsed doing it properly. Asking for bb weights and chrono'ing on energy will catch the honest folk who dont understand physics, as you say cheaters gonna cheat so at least use the method that requires people to be dishonest and follow up by catching people in the field.

Like i said in my original point- i'd rather get smacked by a gun running 329fps on .2's than one that runs 320fps on .2's but 290 on .4's.

Theyre quite uncommon arent they? Ive only seen that kind as the Angry gun powerup type for the MP9/MP7. Never seen one for a pistol.

That being said, having a suppressor on a pistol looks really cool, but every time Ive used one (inner barrel or not) its been totally impractical and the extra weight on the outer barrel causes cycling issues. 

Some versions of the mk23 and the we makarov comes with one, the makarov one is a seperate barrel extension though so it's pretty visible when you pull it off.

In any of the cases of a barrel extension they tend to push them way over any reasonable limit although accuracy tends to go out the window.

Not saying they're all bad, on an aeg or without a barrel extension they can look cool and for some gun types even make a big difference to noise.

 

[Tommikka]

@Adolf Hamster @Immortal

Cheers guys

I’ve seen wide variations (in Paintball), and would much prefer to check a pistol then assume it’s under the limit, particularly if 99% of them are expected to be under the limit - that’s the fastest way through chrono with instant passes

.... and as sites ought to have insurance in place, I very much doubt that risk assessments state that sites will assume green gas pistols are under powered

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

Like i said originally- cant be arsed doing it properly. Asking for bb weights and chrono'ing on energy will catch the honest folk who dont understand physics, as you say cheaters gonna cheat so at least use the method that requires people to be dishonest and follow up by catching people in the field.

Er nope no one sound anything about can't be arsed said not feasible, don't take what is said and try and twist it. Sites have tried it and have found it takes too long and didn't do fuck all to make anything better. This is why the few who tried reverted back to doing it the tried and tested way.

All this shit went on a few years back so your opinions are nothing new but then I suppose you know more than all the site managers and marshals?

@Adolf Hamster @Immortal

Cheers guys

I’ve seen wide variations (in Paintball), and would much prefer to check a pistol then assume it’s under the limit, particularly if 99% of them are expected to be under the limit - that’s the fastest way through chrono with instant passes

.... and as sites ought to have insurance in place, I very much doubt that risk assessments state that sites will assume green gas pistols are under powered

All guns should be checked and site insurances would state that. Any site not doing it is just negligent.

 

[Druid799]

Hard as it is ? totally agree with trigger on this one , chrono should only use the simplest system possible , once you start introducing any deviation from this it’ll all go to rat shit ! The big spanner in the works if you try anything different is the players plain and simple , you’ll have smart arse ones gobbing off about all the variants mentioned, you’ll have noobs asking boneheaded questions because they’ve heard some gobshite trying to be clever about ‘Joule creep’ or god knows what else and before you know it the warm up game is taking place at bloody midday ! ?‍?

chrono is most definitely one occasion were K.I.S.S. Should be applied 100% .

 

[Seven]

Moral of the story children ? give yourself a good margin for error , you get your gun set up to fireing at 349.99999999fps on your mates chrono your gonna get burned and it’ll end in tears ! 

I had one of these moments today... My gun chrono'd at 349.6 on a fresh mag.

I knew it would before hand because I did my own chrono at home and it never goes above that number but I was too lazy to change it right away. I was a little too exuberant with my piston o-ring so I'm gonna have to change it back to what I had before, which chrono's at around 340.

Think the new o-ring was causing me intermittent feeding issues too so it's no big deal.

Piston came with 3 different o-rings. 1 is too loose but the other 2 are too tight it appears! Dunno what to do!