FPS limit?

[gasman]

I think a sensible and balanced approach is required if over site limit at morning test the gun may not be used, guns that pass are tagged in places you can not remove, not stocks I have run 2 identical guns.

Random tests during the day and any excessive change from morning test questions asked and tags checked, weapon banned for the rest of the day. Repeat offenders with over limit guns then banned from site.

Gas pistols are classic for extra power due to gas change after chrono I know I was shot with one last week pain but no lasting damage. Very hard to stop.

 I personally try and run as close to upper site limits as possible as it does with good hop adjustment give best range with heavier BBs.

Nubes just don't know enough or have test equipment so we should not put them off the sport on their early visits by giving them lots of grief, just gently educate and explain why their gun is not usable as is.

 

[DrAlexanderTobacco]

It's not even just gas change after chrono - First and Only's "The Base CQC" site is run fairly well in that regard - the head marshal, Woody I think, during morning brief will essentially say "We'll chrono your gas now, but the day's only going to get hotter - if we chrono you in game and you're shooting hot, you're going home".

 

[gasman]

Their site their rules

 

[Rogerborg]

guns that pass are tagged

What do do you when you find an untagged gun in game?

If the answer is anything other than "Send the player home without even chronoing them", then the pre-game chrono is just Safety Theatre.

any excessive change from morning test questions asked and tags checked, weapon banned for the rest of the day.

Then there's no penalty or deterrent to chancing your luck with a hot gun.

Nubes just don't know enough or have test equipment so we should not put them off the sport on their early visits by giving them lots of grief, just gently educate and explain why their gun is not usable as is. 

I fully agree with that, and up to the moment that games start, sites should be operating on a help + advice basis.

Once you're in game though, it's my eyesight on the line, and I want any hot gun and its owner off site, no questions, no excuses, no second chances.  If I get caught in game with an inadvertently hot gun, I wouldn't expect anything less.

 

[Musica]

That the site owner should check the marshals' guns in game.

I see. I do 100% agree with this. Those marshals rifles nip a bit more than others for sure. 

What do do you when you find an untagged gun in game?

If the answer is anything other than "Send the player home without even chronoing them", then the pre-game chrono is just Safety Theatre..

Yup if they skipped the mandatory chrono or safety brief kick em. 

Then there's no penalty or deterrent to chancing your luck with a hot gun.

yea oh no I can't use my hot gun today what a punishment. Like if someone stabbed a guy sending his knife to jail........

The only point I'm not sure I agree on is the chrono at the game brief it will put people off showing up on time for the brief so they can avoid being tested and it's hard enough to get everyone out ready to play in the first place. 

 

[Wo1f]

Where do you all play that’s so stressful and so full of cheaters? You’re all making a mountain out of a mole hill. 

 

[Musica]

Where do you all play that’s so stressful and so full of cheaters? You’re all making a mountain out of a mole hill. 

I'm just discussing how to avoid or discourage people from doing it. If there is no punishment then there's no reason people will stay honest. If there's no checks then the punishment won't come in to play.

I'm not stressed about it. 

 

[Wo1f]

But what everyone is suggesting involves taking up half the day fucking around with BB weights and assuming everyone is out to shoot you with hypersonic BB’s.

 

[Immortal]

I think most people are just there to play a game. They're more likely to cheat in terms of hit calling than running hot guns. Most probably aren't aware of the term and what can cause it. A minority would be the ones deliberately tweaking to run hot.

Many people run X weight of BB and someone says try a heavier one for improving range and leaf cutting etc, in turn they do and find it better but don't realise that it may have taken their rif into the hot category. Then another person gets the same advice and gets the same improvement but as they have a different spec gun it remains in the pass category.

Then there's a minority who will chrono on green gas and switch to black, or have a quick change of spring or tweak a reg or knowingly load up with heavy ammo that boosts the joules on purpose... whatever it is that makes them run hot. These are the deliberate cheaters and thankfully IME a rarity.

Most people just want to play and play to play. Most people are honest, it's an honest game and the only way it works.

As with most laws, regs and rules; they are there to catch a minority but penalise the majority.

A site can only chrono, trust the honesty of the majority and try and catch the minority as and when they are spotted or reported.

And I bet loads of people who say that fella has a hot gun are just gutted they got hit and couldn't hit the fella back for whatver reason.

I'll leave it there.... lol :lol: I've completely lost what the hell I'm on about... a rerun of Columbo is on so I'll just watch that instead.

 

[clumpyedge]

And when chrono takes 3 hrs and first game is lunch time then players will be really happy?.

The relatively small issue of joule creep is nothing compared to a queue of a hundred bored airsofters. Most guns the joule creep is a few fps. Never seen anything  jump too much except for people who deliberately cheat.

You really think players will enjoy getting pulled out of game to be chrono checked? 

We still chrono on the weight people are playing on and use a conversion chart to ensure that the FPS is within limits. Personally id rather either switch to jules or measure everyone on a site supplied .20 but it isnt my decision to make I can only suggest with arguments for an against.

I tried finding a simple list on all the weights vs a site limit and it doesn't seem to exist or there were variations between lists i did find so nothing concrete which was frustrating so we use a chart which by admission could well be out of date.

 

[Immortal]

I've always used a chart such as this when I chrono at home on different weights. It's been on par with results AFAIK.

View attachment 44437

 

[Yukarin]

But what everyone is suggesting involves taking up half the day fucking around with BB weights and assuming everyone is out to shoot you with hypersonic BB’s.

Because it happened at my local site with a certain sniper celebrity and now they strictly enforce Joule limits. His gun was doing around 3-4 joules and it was seriously painful.

My concern is with my gas guns, my friend has his NPAS set around 200 just to make sure it will never creep up to high as the day gets warmer, but that puts him at a range disadvantage, as for me, i set mine around 300 and call it there, if my gun starts shooting hotter due to temp increases (not out of my own intention, not changing gas or npas setting) should i be automatically banned? I would prefer that i turn the npas down and hand the key over to the marshalls if they are concerned im gonna turn it back up.

 

[Steveocee]

It's an educational issue in my eyes. Greener players tend to chase every last FPS where the more experienced guys kind of know that it's not just about that and appreciate the other qualities such as hopup quality, BB quality and so on. Yes there are a few ill-educated guys who are site veterans and run a little close if not over the limit because they're besties with the site owner but that is definitely ignorance.

I certainly agree that hot guns need to be removed from play however the age old site .2 over chrono is a good but rough indicator, anything that raises the eyebrows too much the player is asked not to use the RIF and also a short chat about why they're running so high and if they really need it to get to what end?

 

[Wo1f]

Because it happened at my local site with a certain sniper celebrity and now they strictly enforce Joule limits. His gun was doing around 3-4 joules and it was seriously painful.

My concern is with my gas guns, my friend has his NPAS set around 200 just to make sure it will never creep up to high as the day gets warmer, but that puts him at a range disadvantage, as for me, i set mine around 300 and call it there, if my gun starts shooting hotter due to temp increases (not out of my own intention, not changing gas or npas setting) should i be automatically banned? I would prefer that i turn the npas down and hand the key over to the marshalls if they are concerned im gonna turn it back up.

See, there’s the difference. When an airsoft ‘celeb’ turns up at the sites I’ve played at, the Marshall’s have come up to me and told me to ruin their day ?. They are watched like hawks. 

 

[Rogerborg]

But what everyone is suggesting involves taking up half the day fucking around with BB weights and assuming everyone is out to shoot you with hypersonic BB’s. 

The problem isn't "everyone", it's that one guy who's taking the piss because he's either genuinely ignorant, or thinks that he won't get caught, or that there won't be any consequences if he is.  We've been given examples of both in this thread, they're not hypothetical.

All I'm suggesting is a marshal with a chrono and a speedloader full of 0.2g / site limit BBs at the respawn point, or briefing point.  Chrono a few players while they're otherwise faffing around or chatting.  Do it visibly so that everyone can see that it's being done and that there's a real chance of being caught with a hot gun.

In the case of my local site, for example, there's always a queue to get back into the safe zone from the briefing point.  Pulling a few players aside for chronoing would just re-shuffle the queue, not increase the total time to clear the site, and everyone could see it being done.

What's actually a waste of everyone's time is talking a good game about fps / energy limits without actually checking in-game. The majority of good faith players don't need to be lectured about it, the minority of rogues aren't going to care, and rhetoric won't deter or catch them.

 

[Wo1f]

@Rogerborg I’d have no problem with that. It’s all of the fucking about with weights at the start of the day some people are suggesting. Chrono on a .20 and leave it at that. We have a Marshall with a chrono that is supposed to spot check people in game, but I’ve never really seen it happen. I think it’s more the threat of it. 

 

[Adolf Hamster]

All I'm suggesting is a marshal with a chrono and a speedloader full of 0.2g / site limit BBs at the respawn point, or briefing point.  Chrono a few players while they're otherwise faffing around or chatting.  Do it visibly so that everyone can see that it's being done and that there's a real chance of being caught with a hot gun.

indeed, once you build up a local reputation as the kind of place where you can get pulled over at any point and tested without the chance to undo whatever trickery you're using to cheat then the cheaters either won't go, or will run kosher guns just in case.

when we finally talked the marshalls at one of our sites into trying it they managed to snag someone running 2.5x the limit.

the weight argument taking too long is easily solved- print out the row on that conversion chart that corresponds to your site limit and tape it onto the chrono.

there's a mix of the honest folk who have no idea (ie the guys who don't understand 328fps on a .3 is not the same as on a .2, or folk who don't understand that joule creep is a thing) and the deliberately dishonest folk (the spring changers, the hpa tweakers etc) who can only really be caught in-game.

 

[Musica]

The problem isn't "everyone", it's that one guy who's taking the piss because he's either genuinely ignorant, or thinks that he won't get caught, or that there won't be any consequences if he is.  We've been given examples of both in this thread, they're not hypothetical.

All I'm suggesting is a marshal with a chrono and a speedloader full of 0.2g / site limit BBs at the respawn point, or briefing point.  Chrono a few players while they're otherwise faffing around or chatting.  Do it visibly so that everyone can see that it's being done and that there's a real chance of being caught with a hot gun.

In the case of my local site, for example, there's always a queue to get back into the safe zone from the briefing point.  Pulling a few players aside for chronoing would just re-shuffle the queue, not increase the total time to clear the site, and everyone could see it being done.

What's actually a waste of everyone's time is talking a good game about fps / energy limits without actually checking in-game. The majority of good faith players don't need to be lectured about it, the minority of rogues aren't going to care, and rhetoric won't deter or catch them.

I like the idea of there being a guy guarding the safe zone with a chrono because as soon as a cheater seen say a marshal at spawn or at the briefing area checking people they might try to sneak back and untweak their gun pretending it's broken. 

The problem I see with a respawn chrono is your double punishing legit players who took their hit waited for 2 minutes now need to load a few site bbs in and chrono where as a cheater might not make it all the way back to spawn before tapping back in.  You could have a patrolling marshal bleed out players early to chrono. 

 

[Rogerborg]

a cheater might not make it all the way back to spawn before tapping back in.  You could have a patrolling marshal bleed out players early to chrono. 

Oof, good point, and well suggested.

when we finally talked the marshalls at one of our sites into trying it they managed to snag someone running 2.5x the limit.

Double-oof.

One reason that I bring it up is that I put a "500fps" (2.31J) spring in my boltie, and when I chronoed it, found that it was actually shooting at 600fps on 0.2g, or 3.33J - i.e. not an airsoft gun.

Back in the car it went, but that was at a site where chronoing was optional. I could have walked on and used it without let or hindrance (and genuinely without knowing, if I hadn't bothered to check), and that's what got me pondering that anybody could do so.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

One reason that I bring it up is that I put a "500fps" (2.31J) spring in my boltie, and when I chronoed it, found that it was actually shooting at 600fps on 0.2g, or 3.33J - i.e. not an airsoft gun.

Back in the car it went, but that was at a site where chronoing was optional. I could have walked on and used it without let or hindrance (and genuinely without knowing, if I hadn't bothered to check), and that's what got me pondering that anybody could do so.

yeah, this is the thing, for certain scenarios it's very easy to accidentally do something that makes a gun hot without even realising, joule creep is the big example but i've had the same as you happen when i bought a full drop-in gearbox and mistakenly assumed the spring would be ok, needless to say at the chrono i was as surprised as the guy holding it and back in the car it went.

i remember someone asking me about putting a longer barrel in his pistol, fella had no idea until i explained to him that it'll push him way over the limit if he did. to this day i get antsy when i see pistols with suppressors on them.