petition on knife law changes

[mimozine]

dont know if anyone here is interested, there is a petition aginst the proposed changes to knife laws (not being able to post knives) if they can do this with knives i can see rifs going down same route.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/222776?utm_source=Heinnie+Haynes+-+2018&utm_campaign=e093588ac8-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_06_29_11_31_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_15c01d759b-e093588ac8-147031737&mc_cid=e093588ac8&mc_eid=98a7c84fec

 

[Guest]

 Cheers bud, already signed ??

 

[Seven]

Signed

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

Can I just point out this has nothing to do with airsoft. This is legislation to cut down on the knife crime problem. 

Has there been 51 people shot to death on the streets of London with an airsoft gun so far this year? No there has not.

This is just airsofters sticking their nose where it doesn't belong. 

 

[Druid799]

Yup already signed as well . ?

Usual response to a serious situation by ANY Gov , knife crime is rocketing they know exactly what’s happening and where the blame really lays but won’t say anything in case they get accused of being racist ! “What can we do ?” Says the Cabinet ,  “Oh I know what we can do” says some snivelling little shit in Whitehall .

“Let’s make a song and dance about a toothless lion of a legislation on knife crime and hit an easy target so it looks like we’re doing something !” 

Take these two photos as the perfect example , first is the newest knives on Heinnie Haynes and the second is knives taken by the police in a single wk in Bethnal Green ! Wonder how many came via mail order and how many from Poundland ? At those prices ? 

Edit 

id say yes it is relevant as there’s also a fair few Airsoft guns getting pulled in at the same time (apparently the young kids in the gangs use them in muggings !) 

so how long before they do start tightening the noose on us again ? 

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[Jedi_Master]

Knives are not airsoft, so moved to Off Topic section

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

Actually I think the police are backing this because knives are being sold online to under 18s.

As someone who does use bladed items in my job I don't see the big issue. If I want something I can just go to a store and buy it. If I buy it online I can pick it up at a post office after showing ID.

While there will obviously need to be amendments made at least it is some attempt at control. Yes kitchen knives will still be the main thing used and the punishments should be more severe but every step taken to make it harder is plus point.

 

[Druid799]

Do agree with you legislation needs to be brought in to try and help control the spiralling use of knives but I genuinely believe this’ll have absolutely no effect on it . Couple of wks ago my local police (SW con stab) did an underage sting operation on local shops/cheap discount shops and the result was as you’d expect , time and time again they sent kids in who were blatantly under age but they were still sold the knives I just can’t believe these gang members are going to spend £25,£35,£45,etc on an on-line knife when they can pick up a kitchen devil type knife for £3.99 as they know if the police arrive on site there going to have to ditch it ? 

 

[Rogerborg]

id say yes it is relevant as there’s also a fair few Airsoft guns getting pulled in at the same time (apparently the young kids in the gangs use them in muggings !) 

And exactly the same argument applies.  It's already an offence to sell to under 18s, but do retailers check, or care?  I'd expect that the 'BB' ones at least don't give a stuff.

Furthermore, they are set to ban private possession of all of the prohibited-to-sell offensive weapons.  That list includes all curved swords with a blade length over 50cm.  I followed that particular piece of legislation through its committee stages, where they intended to ban "samurai swords" and instead managed to stuff reenactors by banning the sale and manufacture of sabres, cutlasses and falchions, but the eBay tat sellers just switched to straight bladed "ninja swords" overnight.

So yes, I am very wary of Parliament legislating on weapons, as once they get the bit in their teeth, they tend to start broadening definitions willy nilly.  Note that they are going to ban .50 cals by the back door of "muzzle energy", despite the vast majority of respondents noting that such a weapon had never been used in a crime.

On the efficacy of a postage ban, one of the responses to the consultation noted that the main source of knives will remain the kitchen drawer, knife block, or just shoplifting the things on demand.

 

[Druid799]

And exactly the same argument applies.  It's already an offence to sell to under 18s, but do retailers check, or care?  I'd expect that the 'BB' ones at least don't give a stuff.

Furthermore, they are set to ban private possession of all of the prohibited-to-sell offensive weapons.  That list includes all curved swords with a blade length over 50cm.  I followed that particular piece of legislation through its committee stages, where they intended to ban "samurai swords" and instead managed to stuff reenactors by banning the sale and manufacture of sabres, cutlasses and falchions, but the eBay tat sellers just switched to straight bladed "ninja swords" overnight.

So yes, I am very wary of Parliament legislating on weapons, as once they get the bit in their teeth, they tend to start broadening definitions willy nilly.  Note that they are going to ban .50 cals by the back door of "muzzle energy", despite the vast majority of respondents noting that such a weapon had never been used in a crime.

On the efficacy of a postage ban, one of the responses to the consultation noted that the main source of knives will remain the kitchen drawer, knife block, or just shoplifting the things on demand.

Spot on bud , my Napolionic dragoon sabre that’s been frame mounted for over a hundred yrs will now become illegal! . 

A team mate is on chatting terms with the guy who runs Parbelum consultanting , and had a very interesting discussion about the amazing amount of hoops you have to go through to get a 50 (was curious how many they sold) of any sort .

 

[Gepard]

 Couple of wks ago my local police (SW con stab) did an underage sting operation on local shops/cheap discount shops and the result was as you’d expect , time and time again they sent kids in who were blatantly under age but they were still sold the knives 

Meanwhile I couldn't buy a pack of firelighters for a BBQ without ID (which I conveniently left at home) despite being 19 and with £20 worth of food in my basket. 

By the time I got back some cunt had taken the last of the sausages. Grr..  <_<

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

To be honest I wonder if anybody who has ever been a victim of knife crime would ever sign this thing.

It is all well and good people moaning about how it affects them but it affects the poor sods getting stabbed a lot more. 

As for having swords in your house being affected by the laws on bladed items that sucks but I wonder how many have been stolen in burglaries and then ended being used in a crime.

There is no easy answer. I don't like the draconian laws but at the end of the day I would happily live by them if it meant my kids were safe in the street.

The obvious answer is draconian responses to crime. But unfortunately people moan about mutilating and hanging people, right up until they are the victim themselves.

It will never be sensible because those in charge have no real understanding of normal life.

 

[Druid799]

All valid points but in the end it won’t change a thing , it’s the culture now , untill society is prepared to ignore the PC brigade and point fingers and actually allocate the blame where the problem is coming from then it will never change . if the Gov banned all knives the gangs would just make shanks like they use in prison . This legislation isn’t even a sticking plaster it’s a nothing , just a balloon full of hot air nothing more nothing less .

 

[Guest]

All I’m gonna say is, legislation, in general, prevents normal law abiding citizens from enjoying their hobbies and pastimes.It almost never affects the nefarious from being shady.

If you want to affect people’s behaviour, educate them, don’t legislate.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

All valid points but in the end it won’t change a thing , it’s the culture now , untill society is prepared to ignore the PC brigade and point fingers and actually allocate the blame where the problem is coming from then it will never change . if the Gov banned all knives the gangs would just make shanks like they use in prison . This legislation isn’t even a sticking plaster it’s a nothing , just a balloon full of hot air nothing more nothing less .

Agreed it will probably change very little. Bur when all these things have been tried and if they don't work then hopefully it will sink in that only thing that will work is real punishments. 

Difficult to make a shank with no hands.

All I’m gonna say is, legislation, in general, prevents normal law abiding citizens from enjoying their hobbies and pastimes.It almost never affects the nefarious from being shady.

If you want to affect people’s behaviour, educate them, don’t legislate.

We do educate them, most drug dealers are good at maths.

 

[jcheeseright]

gang members stabbing each other in london do not get their knives from mail order, they get them from cutlery drawers.  

This will not stop a single stabbing, it's utterly pointless legislation. 

 

[Guest]

We do educate them, most drug dealers are good at maths.

OK I’ll bite. I’m pretty sure you know exactly what I mean, but I will spell it out with an example.

Up to the late fifties/early sixties, driving a motor vehicle under the influence of alcohol was socially acceptable.

After a long and expensive campaign to educate the general public, it is no longer socially acceptable.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

OK I’ll bite. I’m pretty sure you know exactly what I mean, but I will spell it out with an example.

Up to the late fifties/early sixties, driving a motor vehicle under the influence of alcohol was socially acceptable.

After a long and expensive campaign to educate the general public, it is no longer socially acceptable.

That is a totally different thing. 

Stabbing people has generally been frowned upon for a few centuries already so guess they already know.

The only way to educate the antisocial scum wandering around is by using a blade of french design. Chop off a few heads in public view and then they might start to learn. Anything else is a waste of time as prison is not a deterrent. 

Not all blades are kitchen knives either. My brother is a copper and he has told me some of things they come across. Anyone know what a klingon bat'leth is?

 

[Duff]

If you're buying an item online that is age restricted you should have to have a credit card to verify your age.

Pretty simple. Post what you like to whom you like as long as they're making adult decisions. Cos we all know adults don't make stupid decisions and end up in jail.

Anyone know what a klingon bat'leth is?

How often has that line got you laid?

 

[sonofsammo]

Pretty simple. Post what you like to whom you like as long as they're making adult decisions. Cos we all know adults don't make stupid decisions and end up in jail.

And no adult has ever stabbed anyone, ever.......