advice on setting up airsoft site?

[ginndo]

Hi guys

I was wondering if you would be able to give me some advice on setting up an airsoft site? I have found a disused 5 acre garden centre. Its a very nice site but the only problem is it has no working electrics or water, the site does have toilets but they dont work. The site is very derelict with debris and broken glass all over place and would need a very good clean and clearout.

The site has an old cafe which would make a very good reception area but the cafe has no working kitchen as everything has been taken. The site is a mix of big open indoor areas and outdoor courtyards and there is an area of grass/trees with a couple of brick outhouses.

The other thing that could become a problem is that there is a house next door that can look into one of the open areas, would this be a problem as to using pyro because of the noise etc?

5 acres is kinda small for big games,how many players would be a nice size as I dont think you could fit 60 at this garden centre it might be abit crowded, I was thinking about 40ish players?

The garden centre has been derelict for about 2 years now and the new landowner does not know how much to charge for rent, I dont know what a good price is to pay per month for a 5 acre garden centre. But they are very happy for the site to used for airsoft and would allow plyboard fake walls etc to be put up etc

many thanks

ginndo

 

[Alexb111]

From the legal side:

You need to check planning laws and stuff, even with temporary or plyboard structures (depending on height). Also if your planning on making money (obviously), you will probably need a business licence of some form. Working with children - CRB check.

Basically thats just 3 of a big list which you need to talk to some form of legal advisor about.

With the house yes noise is an issue but the main issue would be stray bb's because shooting into other people's property is illegal. Don't know how to combat it except avoid letting people near the house/borders.

As for cleaning it up and also getting some things in place my advice is check out the local scouts/explorers etc. Ask them if they have any people willing to do volunteer work (Duke of Edinburgh award for example).

Or offer a free game for every person that puts over x hours into getting the site up and running.

With player numbers it all depends on how many marshals you have and how the site is set up and what games you run. If your playing free for all then you limit the number of players more than if your playing teams. If your doing a fort assault you can get even more players in as there will be a large clump set up in one place for most of the game.

There's a hell of a lot to think about such as if your going to do hire guns & equipment etc. Cleaning bbs up from time to time (or ban use of non bio-bbs).

The best advice I can probably give is to get everything sorted first so you can plan through from buying the site to opening for 6 months. All possible problems from advertising to legal. - Last thing you want to do is buy the site and find out you can't use it.

 

[Carrel]

Where to are you thinking of setting up, where in the UK is it? I'm sure some f the people on this forum would help clean glass ect for a free first game, I know I would.

 

[two_zero]

This is going to be a very messy post:

Was thinking the same as most have said, there be plenty of volunteers if you offer free games in return.

Definitely contact someone about the legality.. there are some lawyers active across airsoft forums.. maybe some local that are willing to help you, again, maybe for free games.

To help get the financial part working maybe you can see if any paintballers want to rent it as well.

If you want tons of people, go for very low price, my local site is 20 for full day and 10 for half, they get loads of people and you never need to worry about how to finance the games.

Also, I'd be a bit pissed of if I took the time, money and effort to travel to a site and was told there was too many people.

Since it seems to be fairly reasonable people, and the place isn't being used anyway, maybe they would agree to charge you only part of the profit?

Maybe an airsoft shop could hook up with you, for a start anyway, and you get part of their profit for items sold at your site. would save you tons of money (stock) and work (sourcing, getting everything there on the day, etc etc)

As you only have 3 posts, I have to ask you.. how many games/sites have you been to. if not a ton then maybe again you will need help from more other airsofters, this time, more experienced ones.

Looked into UKARA?

Also register on airbana and advertise it on all airsoft forums where you are allowed to.

I never opened a site, I never intend to, but that's what I can think of. Once I reed a thread with someone wanting to open a site, and he got tons of abuse from someone else who had opened a site saying "why would we help you".. and.. why would we help you? here's why, we're airsofters and the more sites the better. your site might just be down my road if I'm lucky.

 

[Suzuki Yamamoto]

I would add that you should also think hard about your location, where is the nearest Airsoft site? Will you be in direct competition with them? If there is nothing near to your proposed site then you have a better chance of success.

You could contact other sites around the country and ask if they would share how they first got setup and open. They would be best placed to tell you exactly what you need to do and may also offer some helpful advice on what to do and what not to do when/if your proposed site opens. Networking could be so beneficial, especially when its called "The Airsoft community", others are willing to share the information as they want the sport/hobby to grow.

Have you done a business plan? Like any other business, you need to make money. How much rent are you being charged? Is it by the week, month or for just the days you use the site? Negogiate the best price possible as its a derelict site and being unused, then any income for the landlord is a bonus. Consider all of your expenditures before thinking about the income.

What area is your proposed site?

I hope this isn't confusing, I just thought I would add some other questions you may not of already thought about. I would love to open a new London site as there are not enough, but dont have the capital to get it off the ground and have too many other commitments.

 

[Alexb111]

Just a quick extra thought I had:

If you do go ahead and stuff happens make sure you set a proper contract with the landlords up (minimum duration etc) so they don't come in 3 months and say they want their land back - would be a lot of wasted work and effort.

 

[ginndo]

The site is based in Oxfordshire Henley, which is close to first and only 'the mall' in Reading

When I went to view the site the only way of hitting the house would be to aim at the top window as the tree line is quite high,

Im already advanced CRB checked as I work in the Leisure Industry with children.

I get enough volunteers from a friend who runs a 300 player football league and get people involved, I have spoke to players already and they would be keen to help tidy up for a free game.

We would max our numbers to about 40 and take bookings only, so we wouldn't have to turn people away.

Ive been an airsofter for about 15 years so ive been to quite a few setups and sites, so I have a rough idea of players needs and want makes good and bad games etc.

Like I said the landowner doesn't have a clue what rent to charge, but are keen for us to use the site for airsoft if it all works out legal and with the right permissions etc.

 

[Suzuki Yamamoto]

Instead of rent, why not offer a share of the profits? £20 a head for 40 players = £800. If you paid rent, it would greatly eat into your profits. Your in a good position to negotiate rent or profit share.

How often will the games happen, weekly or every other week?

 

[SheriffHD]

If you want to set up a site a few basics that you can cover to avoid rouge ammo going off site.

Large wooden poles or metal arbout 10-20 feet high with windbreak fencing (about 8x6mm hole size) this will help keep ammo from going off site.

Rent, just pitch price ideas back and forth till you come up with something you both are happy with.

General site, you will need to purchase insureance, a portable genrator would be a good investment, as well as maybe a trailer cafe.

Everythign else such as tempory structures can be put up with little to no hasstle from the council so you should be good for that.

You already said that you have voluntees so you are already sorted there.

If you are willing you can serve the site into a duel format site, such as airsoft and paintball, hositng walk on games on a staggered weekend format. Lots of paitnballers are desprate to find good cheap walk on sites as they really dont have as much of them like airsoft does so you have the advantage of advertising to a broader market of customers.

 

[ScoobySnacks]

Although you're not too far from the Mall, the offer would be very different, and I suggest wouldn't be directly in competition with the Mall. I'm not sure how much excess there is in the airsoft market, whether there are players without somewhere to play, or whether the market is saturated with sites. I guess the best way to bring people in is to offer something unusual, so think hard about the game format. Will you play several short games, or one day-long game? How will teams be decided etc.

On the legal side, you really need the advice of someone who has done it already, to help avoid the pitfalls.

Good luck with it, maybe one day I'll be able to pop down and have a game.

 

[Ian_Gere]

Insurance, insurance, insurance... more on that below. First a few things I know about issues raised.

Re: noise nuisance

Just because people off site can hear sounds from your activities, even loud ones, does not make it a noise nuisance in legal terms, even if it does annoy the sh*t out of them. Your site is already zoned for commercial use, so the specific decibel limits and the times during which they apply may well be different to those in a purely residential area. You'd have to check with the local council.

A related issue is parking, because if local residents are unable to gain vehicular access to their property or cannot park their vehicles because of your activities, they can complain to the council to shut you down.

As was mentioned above, it's BB's flying off site that ought to concern you most, not noise. I have a feeling that trees are just not going to cut it. Even if there isn't a specific law regarding missiles originating from a business activity, there's bound to be a catch all public nuisance clause in some planning and/or health & safety legislation. Of course, it'll never get that far because...

Duh, duh, der... Insurance.

You'll never get public liability insurance unless there is a physical barrier which prevents BB's from exiting the site into any area where private owners or the general public have access. It may well be a good idea to talk to the blokes who run The Stan in Sheffield, because their factory/office site is closely surrounded by houses and other businesses. They use some net screens and a general rule that players may not shoot at any snipers on the roofs and those snipers may only shoot down into the courtyard areas of the site, not across the site and into other buildings through windows. Also players are not allowed to shoot out of windows at others anywhere on site. You'd have to ask them, but I'm guessing these rules are there to prevent BB's flying over the buildings and/or screens off site.

In order to get insurance you will also need to have a risk assessment and detailed proposals for procedures and/or equipment to greatly reduce the likelihood of identified risks causing accidents and/or to deal with any such accidents which may occur. I expect there's a whole industry blooming of people who have a certificate to come round your place and write down what is actually just common sense while calling that a consultancy and, since they are thus consultants, charging the kind of fees that word conjures up, but, if you contact your local colleges, it's very likely that one of them will be running a H&S course sooner or later which will give you a certificate of your own, woohoo! I've got one - it takes 2 afternoons; one is a lecture with Q&A and the other mainly watching films. I'm not at home right now, but when I am next I'll see if I can find it and tell you what the issuing body is actually called. It also deals with fire risks and extinguishers and, apparently, the more people who have passed this course that are regularly on site, the cheaper your insurance premiums are.

You'll also want to get at least one person trained in first aid. As far as I know that's not a legal requirement until you reach a threshold number of employees, which is unlikely but worth checking, however, again, it will help with your insurance costs. St. John's Ambulance are always doing courses... I've got one of those certificates too, but it was so long ago that I've not only lost the paper but I expect the best practice has changed since. Again it's something that is cumulative regarding insurance: the more of you that have the training, the merrier, as it were.

It's quite likely that your local council will have someone designated to help with these common issues with start-up businesses and you should also check to see if the area you are planning on using falls into some kind of regeneration scheme, because there could well be money available to help you or credits toward or covering things like the training I've mentioned and basic book keeping, employee management, etc. You may also find that your bank have somebody to perform a similar advisory role, but more geared up towards helping you access govt, council or even EU funding/help.

Good luck and keep us informed on your progress because I'm sure there'll be others like myself who would travel to have a go on a new site and support you.

 

[Richard65]

You may also find that the council will insist you get the toilets working - especially if you are offering an all day skirmish.

 

[Ian_Gere]

You may also find that the council will insist you get the toilets working - especially if you are offering an all day skirmish.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's right, because you'll have to have drinking water available, or, just like eyewear, boots, etc insist people bring their own, because one of your identifiable risks will be dehydration and/or heat-stroke in your punters. I'm pretty sure that if you run a premises that offers beverages to customers invited in, you must also provide toilets and it's definitely illegal to allow your customers who bring their own water to piss all over the place!

 

[ginndo]

Hi guys

Ive spoken to someone from planning within the council and I have filled in a full planning form as the site will go through a 'change of use'.

Im also first aid and defib trained, and also have a head start in book keeping etc as I already run my own auto repair business.

The planning can take up to 2 months but I will keep you guys posted.

 

[Richard65]

Have you called in on the people in the house next to the site? Might be worth explaining to them what airsoft is all about and what you are proposing - it might stop them lodging an objection once they understand more.

 

[Suzuki Yamamoto]

Good luck with this. Really hope it takes off successfully!