Mounting a video camera on a rail?

Tell you what, Ill take a video of my gun firing and playing music without the waterproof case on.

Baring in mind this is the case it is in

http://www.craniologie.com/shop/details/000001404

the only reason you can hear only limited amount is that you can adjust the mic sensitivity in the settings.

You are right about the brightness. Go pro does control it a little better however the sacrifice to me is the go pro gives a warm look to its images which made it looked false. Thus why i like the contour as the colours are more true i feel.

 
That case is quite mental lol, I can fully see why the sound is dampened now... I wonder if there's a comparison review on Youtube anywhere.

I'd appreciate the recording though, could you do it outside? Might be a bit echo-y inside. Maybe even both at the same time, with a real time voice over, just to see how it picks up movement, voices and the gun firing?

I wonder what Scoutthedoggie uses... Probably just a regular style, expensive camcorder.

I think that for the size, shape and look, the Contour is winning for me. I don't like the look of the GoPro at all, I'd feel like I had a box attached to my head, which would probably look pretty stupid. But the brightness thing, as well as the sound are things I feel are more relevant to filming outdoors in woodland, 'cos if I turn around to face the sun if it's low in the sky, or come out of a building, then that glare problem is going to be pretty bad and I'm not even going to know it's happening until I watch the playback. Sound outdoors has less obstructions as well, no walls to bounce off or anything, so it's easier to talk to people and use comms, which I'd like to include in the best possible way...

Then there's the fact the Contour is about £100 cheaper...

I'm really beginning to turn, y'know? I wish the GoPro had a person here fighting for it to same degree as the Contour's supporter lol

 
ye ill do that for you mate.

As i say, if i had anything good to say about the go pro i would....but i dont unfortunately. having tried 4 recording devics being 2 x contour and 2 x go pro there is a reason i went back to contour.

 
I just spoke to airsoft world via a photo on their Facebook page about it and the consensus seems to be that Contour wins lol, I think I'll live without you doing that recording for me, but I'd still appreciate it if you feel so inclined.

 
What I want, basically is footage clear and smooth enough to be able to see shots in flight, the camera to auto adjust for focusing at any distance and for changes in brightness, as well as being shock proof and not wobbling around everywhere and the sound clarity thing is a big thing for me, I want the video to sound like it sounded to me whilst I was recording it.
I think I've mentioned to you before that I'm a sound engineer, yeah? Well, whatever, I am lol! Let me just add some perspective here: You could use a £5000 dedicated audio set up synched to your video and it still wouldn't sound like it did when you were there. When it comes to built in microphones, you've got to bear in mind that the diaphragm is always going to be tiny (< 1cm tops) and a professional condenser mic has a diaphragm about an inch across made from gold plated polymers etc. Also consider that although your ears are less than a foot apart, to record stereo it rarely works that well to simply put 2 mics a head width apart pointing in opposite directions. On a camera, if it records stereo at all, the 2 mics can never be further apart than the width of the camera. It's obviously much more complex than that, but I'm sure you get the drift.

When I studied at uni we also did a bit of work with video, so i'll mention a few things that occur to me:

1) UK HD TV is broadcast is broadcast at 50 fields per second. Each frame is made of 2 fields, each of which contains every other line of pixel data, so it's 25 frames per second, the same as analogue TV. Feature films are recorded at 24 frames per second, unless there is a need for slo-mo. Basically, unless you want mega crisp slo-mo and are willing to pay the extra for the odd time you'll use it, you don't need 60fps.

2) I agree that head mounting is a better idea than gun mounting for video that you want to watch all of, but bear in mind that when you see shakey camera work in films/tv dramas etc, what you're really seeing is an expert deliberately adding precisely what the director wants, often with the camera, counter-intuitively, on a steadycam rig. What you're going to get is pretty random, because nobody holds their head bang upright for long and there will only be your neck wobble cushioning the jarring up down and side to side as you move.

3) It's the holy grail of film-making to be able to just shoot a subject and not have to edit it. The truth is that in reality "the story" of what happened, even while you were living it, does not happen purely in front of you. Of course there are things happening which you hear but don't see and, in theory at least, you could capture those sounds onto the film soundtrack, but I'm also on about your internal world. Human experience isn't just made up of what we get from our senses, it is also what we think about as we experience those inputs, so for eg we may hear something a fair way off and know that it means that the enemy are outflanking your position. How do you represent the frisson of fear/excitement that you feel? A sound panned hard left, say, just tells the audience that something has happened somewhere off camera to the left. Editing, score and SFX...

That's not to say don't have a go tho - check out various vids and find out what they were filmed on and what the sound set up was. It's amazing how you can get lucky with bits of amateur footage where it all just magically happens in the perfect conditions for that camera/mic and at a speed which is perfect for you to keep apace of... go for it mate!

 
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I just have no idea, I can't shake the feeling that I wouldn't be satisfied without the GoPro, but the resolution of the Contour is enough for what I want and the footage of your videos from The Stan looks up to the standard I'm after...
What I want, basically is footage clear and smooth enough to be able to see shots in flight, the camera to auto adjust for focusing at any distance and for changes in brightness, as well as being shock proof and not wobbling around everywhere and the sound clarity thing is a big thing for me, I want the video to sound like it sounded to me whilst I was recording it.

The idea is to edit the video as little as possible, so I think the GoPro will aid that a little better, the wide angle will give a better field of view, the HD recording and 60fps will help the smoothness and clarity and the sound will make it easier to understand my comms and whatnot. The Contour feels like it'd be lacking in one or more of those aspects and the Tachyons I've looked at only shoot 720p and 30fps, which is more of a GunCam only sort of set up, I'm specifically after something headmounted, I'm going for a 1st person shooter feel.

Still edging towards the GoPro the more I think about it... Is there a better Contour than the Roam?
Ed,

I think you are expecting too much from any of these cameras. You may see the shots in flight but as they are only 6mm pellets they could easily get lost in the overall view. This is one area where it would really help if someone with a camera could post some footage for you to view.

Auto adjust focusing is not a feature on any of these that I can see. You have a fixed, wide angle lens that will give a decent depth of view but that is about it.

They are all designed to take knocks but will suffer a bit from camera shake especially if you are running. Sound quality is not bad but if you look at the video footage on the manufacturer websites they mainly seem to have muic rather than voices on them - not sure how sensitive the microphones would be as I guess you would be doing any commentary in a fairly quite voice.

We found with the go-pro that it helped to angle the camera down especially on bright days. In the straight ahead position the wide-angle lens can pick up too much light from the sky and make the ground view too dark. By angling it down the main view will be brightre and the sky brighter still.

The go-pro does give great quality and you can get a protective case with an open back which helps with sound pick-up. They sell a chest harness and helmet straps as well as various other mount options. I have not used a contour but it looks as if it would fit airsofting better. I do have a spare protective case for the go-pro and some mounts.

If you would like to have these to see if you could live with it on your gun/helmet them just pm me your details and I will pop it in the post. You could also use it for some target pracrtice to see how it stands up to punishment. The mounts are on the case rather than on the camera which may be another point against it.

My gut feeling is that trying the case will decide you against the go-pro - at least for airsoft. The mounts gor the go-pro are on the case rather than on the camera so although the sound might be better without the case, it would be harder to fix to the gun or helmet.

The origin of this thread came from somone just starting out in airsofting and for them I would suugest a spy cam for around £20 unless they have plenty of spare cash to cover their loadout as well. The quality will be a little less (but not that bad) and I really doubt that any of these cameras will get used much.

Unless you swithch them on and off during the periods of low activity then you will either do a lot of editing or sit through some fairly dull footage.

 
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I forgot to mention your earlier post, Richard. I was gobsmacked by how good the quality of both audio and video is on that go cart footage you put up, to say it was done on a £20 device. I'm getting one of those! I don't care about mounts for that money, I'll put the belt clip into my helmet band with the unit upside down and LX tape it to the scrim just above my helmet rubber if I can't think of anything more snazzy. I can always wrap some camo tape round it to make it blend in!

 
How do you mount it to yourself, Josh? Can you link me to the helmet attachment rig you've got?
I'm thinking of getting a newer helmet with one of those NVG fixtures on it, so it'd be cool if I could fasten it to that somehow lol.

You'd definitely recommend it though?
mines stuck on with the sticky mount and ive bashed mine many times and that thing is not coming off ever.i would reccomend it yes,mine was £200 for 2 curved sticky mounts,2 flat sticky mounts,extended mount,camera,casing,fully waterproof back and audio back,3 point elastic mount,bike helmet strap and a flat plastic mount so you can have it still on the ground ,apologies i thought it was 60fps at 1080p,heres a video of my dad using my go pro for snow boarding,it plays a bit slow on bad broadband or slow computers but i think that because its vimeo http://vimeo.com/40304843

 
I'm aware that no camera will be as good as I want it to be, I'm just trying to ascertain which is the best available, within reason, for filming airsoft.

I didn't say I wasn't going to edit anything, I'd just rather have the best piece of equipment for the job.

I wasn't trying to come across as naive, just trying to pick up the most knowledge in the shortest time by posting hypothetical situations.

I will most likely have to deal with a lot of irritating issues, regarding camera film and sound effects as well as problems regarding attaching it to myself and I'm aware of that. The point you've all said weren't unknown to me.

But anyway, I've ordered the Contour now, if it's here in time for Saturday and someone lends me £20 so I can get to Skirmish then I plan to film the day and let my brother edit it so he can get to grips with the software for his college course.

 
But anyway, I've ordered the Contour now, if it's here in time for Saturday and someone lends me £20 so I can get to Skirmish then I plan to film the day and let my brother edit it so he can get to grips with the software for his college course.
Sounds like a plan!

Soz if you felt patronised by my earlier post, but yeah, you did originally come across as naive on what you could reasonably expect from a camera within your means ;-)

Anyhoo, all's well that ends with you @Skirmish on Saturday, with or without camera, b/c I'm dying to try out good comms there! I have a cunning plan for the trench field - a variant of Alexander The Great's battleplan against the Persian horde and comms would give us flexibility to smoothly adopt Plan B if the enemy don't go for it like the Persians did.

 
SOFTWARE!! ye contours software program is crap and can do minimal on it...much better getting another program to do your editing.

 
I'm leaving it up to my brother, Chris. He's doing a media course so he needs to know that stuff. I've got a Mac so he says he can use iMovie? I personally have no idea.

Ian, sounds like a plan! I've got a mate who'll hopefully be lending me £20-30 so I ought to alright. Then my Uni loan comes through on Monday, apparently, so I ought to survive the month now haha.

 
I dread to think what I'd have been like with money if I'd been into airsoft while I was @Uni :lol:

*Imagines* - Yeah, this month I can get 125,000 BB's, a BFG, tightbore barrel, russian silencer, fags, and 40 packets of Batchelor's Super Noodles... that ought to do me!

 
I'm living at home and also have a part time job, so with that + the fact I rarely, if ever go out drinking (never saw the appeal) and have all my meals bought for me, I have a fair bit of disposable income lol.

£900 for airsoft roughly every 3 months + what I get from work, which tends to be between £200 and £900 a month depending on how many hours I do. I just have to worry about lunches and busfare.

Despite that, I still end up in situations like this... I keep getting more and more reckless, really shouldn't have spent £160 on my new pistol, £30 on my MTP UBACS etc etc. I must spend roughly a tenner a day on breakfast and lunch... If only Subway weren't so delicious and wasn't so close to... Well, everywhere, there are too many of them!

I have a £1250 overdraft and as above, have less than £30 left...

I even worked in a bank lol, I ought to be good with money.

Oh well, I always manage to work ways around everything, I don't owe anyone any money, apart from Student Finance England, anyway, so I think I'm doing ok... After a fashion.

 
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