Which retailers in the UK accept Just-Cos Cosplayer Insurance?

[superwok]

Effort is clearly an issue for you, like making the effort to play a site 3 times in no less than 56 days, not exactly difficult though ? 

(Unless your like me & for a long time couldn't find a site I liked enough to commit to?) 

Surely the downside to your cosplay defence is you're restricted to the limited number of retailers that accept it, & potentially screwed over on the price, compared to the relative ease of EVERY retailer accepting ukara, allowing you to shop around . 

Also, what's the situation on importing rifs on a cosplay defense. 

I have a disabled child that needs 24/7 care, the odd time I get free, I go to airsoft, so please do not assume or judge or make comments you no nothing about, effort is not a issue for me. 

 

[Shamal]

I've bought a few pews from the classifieds & a few from shops, on at least 3 occasions I've ordered from a shop & in a matter of days the pew I ordered at new price has appeared in the classifieds at a much lower price... DOH!

Yep I know what you are saying.

I bought some pies from Asda and then found the same pies cheaper at Tesco. ?

 

[Pseudotectonic]

To import you will need a defence, although most overseas shop probably don't accept anything other than UKARA to avoid problems

There is also the problem of customs, they are (probably) used to checking UKARA but not any other types of defence

 

[Dan Robinson]

I have a disabled child that needs 24/7 care, the odd time I get free, I go to airsoft, so please do not assume or judge or make comments you no nothing about, effort is not a issue for me. 

Your case, and to a much lesser degree mine is why we need an alternative to the UKARA system.  But like I mentioned, we're very much a minority sport, and within that you and I are a minority, so options are limited.  Might be easier to get a sub category within the UKARA system to reduce fuckery with imports.

 

[Tackle]

I have a disabled child that needs 24/7 care, the odd time I get free, I go to airsoft, so please do not assume or judge or make comments you no nothing about, effort is not a issue for me. 

I don't assume anything, by your own admission researching a seller is extra effort & you'd rather go to a retailer, a as I previously said, your money, your choice. 

The point being discussed, that many don't agree with, understandably, is the defence of cosplay has little bearing on airsoft, open to abuse by non airsofters, which in turn puts everything at risk for the genuine players. 

I sympathise with your situation, I too provide 24/7 care, literally day & night, to a relative, unpaid I should add, who is disabled & has dementia.

Add to that I've been receiving cancer treatment since 2021, & severe orthopaedic issues mean I currently can't climb or descend a flight of stairs unaided, so I know exactly how hard it can be to attend games, or even cope with getting around some sites.

(I'm determined to not let the health crap force me to quit) 

Cosplay would have been piss easy for me to use to buy rifs, but I don't agree with it for Airsoft rifs for all the reasons previously mentioned, maybe cosplayers and reenactors should have been made to go down the route of deacts or similar, in order to not "muddy the waters" for airsofters. 

& as has been mentioned, maybe people like you & I, who find themselves in difficult personal situations should have more flexible options for attaining a ukara defence. 

I'll put this out there as a general question, for example has anyone ever approached a site where they've started playing, but for whatever reason have had a protracted break between games, & asked the site to honour the previous games & make an allowance for the time away ?, allowing players get ukara approval. 

 

[concretesnail]

The ukara require 3 games in no less than given period, does it specifically state a maximum period? If it doesn't and you can show attendance beyond the minimum time surely a record of bookings is enough to obtain the defence. 

If a site has online booking them the bookings with a user account say, then the bookings themselves should serve as evidence enough for a ukara register entry.

 

[BigStew]

The ukara require 3 games in no less than given period, does it specifically state a maximum period? If it doesn't and you can show attendance beyond the minimum time surely a record of bookings is enough to obtain the defence. 

If a site has online booking them the bookings with a user account say, then the bookings themselves should serve as evidence enough for a ukara register entry.

Never seen anything in writing but considering UKARA has to be renewed annually with in 12 months would seem the max.

 

[TheFull9]

The 'stated thing' floated around has always been between 3 months and 1 year; that's what I've always seen at least.  Not official like, but it seems to make sense..(within the known rules)?

 

[ParHunter]

So am I like the only person that actually asks for proof of defense for the stuff i sell? Also how is this thread still going.

How would you actually confirm that the UKARA number they give you is valid and not just a random number? Is there some information encoded in it? Does it have a given structure (like a VIN). Does it have a checksum or something?

 

[Colin Allen]

How would you actually confirm that the UKARA number they give you is valid and not just a random number? Is there some information encoded in it? Does it have a given structure (like a VIN). Does it have a checksum or something?

None of the above, apart from being a three letter site indicator followed by a  five digit number.

 

[Tackle]

How would you actually confirm that the UKARA number they give you is valid and not just a random number? Is there some information encoded in it? Does it have a given structure (like a VIN). Does it have a checksum or something?

My understanding is there are a number of friendly retailers, such as firesupport, that are happy to confirm the validity of ukara details, including the address for delivery. 

 

[Jez_Armstrong]

My understanding is there are a number of friendly retailers, such as firesupport, that are happy to confirm the validity of ukara details, including the address for delivery. 

GDPR would stop them from giving out or confirming an address surely?

only thing they can do is confirm that UKARA number belongs to the named player

 

[EDcase]

They will not give personal information but will confirm details you provide.

When you call you ask if a UKARA number is associated with 'name' and/or 'address' and if currently valid.

 

[Tackle]

GDPR would stop them from giving out or confirming an address surely?

only thing they can do is confirm that UKARA number belongs to the named player

Your correct, I should have made it clearer, buyer approaches me & I'd ask for ukara number, linked name & address, which I can then provide to the likes of firesupport, who would confirm if it's correct & current. 

If all good, my only other requirements is to ensure the delivery address is the same, no deviation. 

Personally I've only ever done this twice, when I had concerns that the buyers were sus in some way, one turned out to be fine, his site also confirmed his regular attendance, but the other was moody af, underage & trying to use someone else's details........... He got swiftly fucked off by me & reported to the mods, ascuk if memory serves me, years ago. 

 

[Tommikka]

GDPR would stop them from giving out or confirming an address surely?

GDPR requires information held to be used for the purposes for which that information was collected 

Using the GDPR as an excuse to not confirm details could be a breach of the GDPR in itself - particularly if the subject provided their reference details to a third party on the basis that the third party may request verification

only thing they can do is confirm that UKARA number belongs to the named player

An address is personal data, the GDPR does not prevent the release of personal data - but to do so must be valid 
 

Technically a UKARA members address could be released, but the most practical outcome would be a query of whether or not ABC1234 matches with Joe Bloggs of 1 The Avenue.  A nice simple match would be a yes or no. Less simple would be that Joe Bloggs has moved, but that goes beyond an easy yes or no and becomes dependent on the policy under which the data was collected 

eg should it be a simple no that there isn’t a 100% match or something inbetween ?  - which probably shouldn’t be in the remit of a friendly site / retailer 

I’m sure there have been cases highlighted on this forum of issues occurring on import etc due to to customs blockage because of an import to a work address that doesn’t match the players UKARA registered address 

 

[Rogerborg]

My understanding is there are a number of friendly retailers, such as firesupport, that are happy to confirm the validity of ukara details, including the address for delivery. 

Curious, since used sales are in direct competition with new sales, and retailers pay for the UKARA scheme.

I don't think there's much of a GDPR (as was) compliance issue with a yes/no confirmation of details provided.  That's the very purpose that the person who provided them wanted them used for.  Notionally, you could use this to confirm that Joe Bloggs lives at 62 West Wallaby Street for purposes other than flogging them a RIF, but since you also need the UKARA number then it's almost certain that Joe has given it to you specifically to allow you to do this.

One thing: if UKARA did leak your data, who would you go after?  The site provides no contact details for whoever is running it, no address, no company number, only the ICO number of ZA031959.

https://ico.org.uk/ESDWebPages/Entry/ZA031959

This (as a matter of public record) give the address of a farmhouse in Cornwall nowhere near any airsoft site or retailer, but not the name of an individual or business.

Data controller: UNITED KINGDOM AIRSOFT RETAILERS ASSOCIATION

Address:

Hollygrove
Woodford
BUDE
CORNWALL
EX23 9JL

Companies House has an entry for a "UKARA LIMITED", involved in "94120 - Activities of professional membership organisations"  https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12865652

This was incorporated on 8 September 2020 by one Mr Haroon Al-Rashid Dawood Atchia of 20 Eversley Road, Bexhill-On-Sea, East Sussex, England, TN40 1HE, but it claimed to have gone dormant in 2021, then filed accounts for FY 2022 showing £15,000+ of debt.

All somewhat opaque.  I mean, how can you trust someone with your details if you don't know theirs?

 

[Tackle]

Curious, since used sales are in direct competition with new sales, and retailers pay for the UKARA scheme.

I don't think there's much of a GDPR (as was) compliance issue with a yes/no confirmation of details provided.  That's the very purpose that the person who provided them wanted them used for.  Notionally, you could use this to confirm that Joe Bloggs lives at 62 West Wallaby Street for purposes other than flogging them a RIF, but since you also need the UKARA number then it's almost certain that Joe has given it to you specifically to allow you to do this.

One thing: if UKARA did leak your data, who would you go after?  The site provides absolutely zero contact details, no address, no company number, only the ICO number of ZA031959.

https://ico.org.uk/ESDWebPages/Entry/ZA031959

This (as a matter of public record) give the address of a farmhouse in Cornwall nowhere near any airsoft site or retailer, but not the name of an individual or business.

Data controller: UNITED KINGDOM AIRSOFT RETAILERS ASSOCIATION

Address:

Hollygrove
Woodford
BUDE
CORNWALL
EX23 9JL

Companies House has an entry for a "UKARA LIMITED", involved in "94120 - Activities of professional membership organisations"  https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12865652

This was incorporated on 8 September 2020 by one Mr Haroon Al-Rashid Dawood Atchia of 20 Eversley Road, Bexhill-On-Sea, East Sussex, England, TN40 1HE, but it claimed to have gone dormant in 2021, then filed accounts for FY 2022 showing £15,000+ of debt.

All somewhat opaque.  I mean, how can you trust someone with your details if you don't know who they are, or how to obtain relief?

Blimey, that's an eye opener, thankfully I don't seem to sell gats anymore, I'm choosing to hoard them instead, for the impending zombie apocalypse ?

 

[Colin Allen]

Companies House has an entry for a "UKARA LIMITED", involved in "94120 - Activities of professional membership organisations"  https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12865652

This was incorporated on 8 September 2020 by one Mr Haroon Al-Rashid Dawood Atchia of 20 Eversley Road, Bexhill-On-Sea, East Sussex, England, TN40 1HE, but it claimed to have gone dormant in 2021, then filed accounts for FY 2022 showing £15,000+ of debt.

That is a different organisation that has nothing to do with airsoft.

 

[Delta3G]

If your a criminal reading this thread & are thinking about turning an IF in to a RIF, look at the pretty light ?

View attachment 125211

It didn't work, and you are not Will Smith. 

 

[TheFull9]

Worst ever first post award.