Questionable politics and airsofters

[Tackle]

End of the day, z/wagner shit is claiming hundreds+ lives every day, even today, on both sides, & let's not forget that some of those Russians aren't there out of choice, & others may have gone there having been misled by the dictatorships "free" media & state propaganda. 

On that basis, no site should be allowing these patches to be worn on gamedays, in 30+ years you might get away with them being part of a viable loadout (but I doubt it), but in 2023 they're just symbols of oppression & murder on a massive scale. 

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Can't disagree there @Tackle.

 

[Dan Robinson]

I often joke about the time my brother brought his German girlfriend to our dad's house to meet the family - including my recently wedded Japanese wife.

My dad's humorous reposte to my brother and I was:  "FFS will I ever get a daughter in law not part of the axis of evil?".

Thankfully the German lass wasn't within earshot, and SWMBO's English wouldn't have computed.

It was fecking funny at the time ????

 

[Spartan09]

If we take that view, any war has its oppos and anyone can take offence at anything. Where do we stop. Germans getting offended at British D-Day kit... Yanks offended at VC loadouts... Jedi offended by Stormtroopers... Covenant airsofters disgusted by Spartan loadouts... Next we'd be banning shemaghs as the wrong colour will offend someone (a genuine cultural fopah in the Gulf but we airsofters tend to ignore it, mainly out of ignorance).

Personally, there's good taste to be accounted for, however it's still just a bit of dress-up. 

My great-grandfather fought in the Somme. Another family relative was a Jew who escaped to Scotland with his bro from Poland in 1939 when they were all getting rounded up and sent to camps. His remaining family were wiped out in the horrors that followed. Whilst I'm fully aware and appreciative of history, I'm afraid I am not offended in the slightest if someone turns up to my local field in SS kit with toy guns. Thats just me, again there's the question of what is good taste, and others may be for good reason more sensitive which regardless of my more Liberal views I do respect.

i take the same view.

nowadays everything has the potential to offend everyone, its honestly tiring

im not offended if someone wants to wear rusfor kit or SS kit,  just as long as you arent spouting off that you were in ukraine or are out to hunt the jews...   if you do that,  then you can fuck off.  fortunately i havent seen anyone take things that far,  but i have seen many rusfor kits, one SS loadout, 2 regular german ww2 army loadouts and one modern PLA loadout,  none of which offended me as none of the wearers took things too far.

the one SS kit i saw was at one of my regular sites and the head marshall began the briefing by bringing the loadout to everyones attention and asking if anyone had any objections, and if they did then the wearer would be asked to change loadout.  no one had any objections and the games ran smoothly.

all that being said, if i see anyone in those uniforms,  then i set myself a challenge to hunt them down as priority targets.   i have yet to see anyone brave stupid enough to wear a wagner or Z patch yet though

 

[Dan Robinson]

Frankly I'm more worried about stolen valour than I am offending various political sympathies.  I might draw the line at SS and Nazi stuff, but I am not aware enough of the various military insignia to notice or be otherwise informed enough to be offended.

 

[Spartan09]

also @Ebeneezer Goode
its good to know your family history.   i am still trying to research my family history beyond WW2,  and i regret not beginning my research earlier, before my grandfather began to suffer from dementia.

my great uncle was one of the troops who came across Belsen at the end of the war, and my great grandfather was on submarines in the Mediterranean.  in fact the wreck of his submarine was just discovered this week off the coast of greece,  so i would have a valid reason to be offended by ww2 german uniforms,  but as long as you arent spouting lines, i have no issue with them

 

[Dan Robinson]

its good to know your family history.

We have my nan's life recorded in pretty good detail - including some grim stories from when she was an ARP warden.  My Uncle was a Pathfinder, and another Uncle was nominated in dispatches for an expedition in Burma.  I'm embarrassed that I don't know more details.  I do remember seeing a picture of him in the field and thinking "I wouldn't fuck with that guy".  I'm going to get the links my dad found on it.

 

[Spartan09]

Frankly I'm more worried about stolen valour than I am offending various political sympathies.  I might draw the line at SS and Nazi stuff, but I am not aware enough of the various military insignia to notice or be otherwise informed enough to be offended.

agreed.  but as long as you dont go all walter mitty, then i dont see an issue with accurate patches

i have got replica unit insignia on my WW1 loadout simply to make it a bit different than a plain tunic and trousers,  and my regular modern UBACS has royal marine patches on the sleeve (they were on the shirt when i bought it) but i would never dare claim to be part of those units. 

and while i have no issue with anyone else wearing ww2 german kit of any flavour, i personally would never wear such kit myself

I'm going to get the links my dad found on it.

sounds good,  though maybe we should create a seperate chat to discuss, so as not to derail this chat too much

 

[Dan Robinson]

sounds good,  though maybe we should create a seperate chat to discuss, so as not to derail this chat too much

Agreed ?

\was watching some videos this afternoon of some veterans visiting old battlefields and saying we should remember those that fell over those that lived.

 

[Spartan09]

chat created...

and everyone else is welcome to join as well if they wish
 

 

[Pupa2794]

I've thought about this as I couldn't put my finger on exactly why it was bothering me, but I wouldn't say I'm offended by patches of any sort. 

I'd say I find it fucking embarrassing. Like, imagine someone from a tabloid or something seeing us playing with a couple of people wearing those, and we would all be tarred with the same brush. Realistically, it should be called out and sites should stamp it out. 

It's not that far fetched an idea, they've run stories at events moaning people were dressed as terrorists. That's people in jeans, a shirt and a shemagh with an ak. 

If public perception is that we are a bunch of far right wing A holes who have gun fetishes this hobby is on borrowed time. 

Especially with an inevitably incoming (and not soon enough) labour government. 

A proper impression is different and that's just nuance perhaps. 

 

[Tommikka]

It's not that far fetched an idea, they've run stories at events moaning people were dressed as terrorists. That's people in jeans, a shirt and a shemagh with an ak. 

I’ve not seen stories just referring to ‘dressing as terrorists’

I have seen stories of terrorists that have played airsoft / paintball and the slant has been that it was ‘terrorist training/practice’ 

 

[Rogerborg]

I have seen stories of terrorists that have played airsoft / paintball and the slant has been that it was ‘terrorist training/practice’ 

And this absolute whanger, which is why I'm not blasé about "mid century history enthusiasts" with a very specific interest in lightning bolts and friendship windmills.  I draw a distinction here between generic Wehrmacht or Rooshan, versus sporting ᛋᛋ or Z emblems.  At an actual historic re-enactment event representing the totality of a conflict you can (but don't have to) make the "Well, someone has to do it" argument.  At an airsoft skirmish, or even a milsim, that doesn't apply: it's always a conscious choice to go full fash.

And the warning sign for me is not how long ago the events occurred, but whether the ideology behind them is still active now.  And especially if it's still actively recruiting.

If it is, then I'll always doubt the motives for choosing to display and promote it, regardless of any public protestations to the contrary.

 

[Cannonfodder]

I’ve not seen stories just referring to ‘dressing as terrorists

A few years ago there was a site which was using shemaghs for team ID and one of the the shitrag papers (either the scum or the daily heil)got hold of photos. They claimed that players were cosplaying terrorists. I'll post links if I can find them

 

[EvilMonkee]

If we're worried about dressing up as a force that has taken part in illegal wars of aggression, we'll have to start using Irish Rangers or Swiss reservist loadouts...

You called?

I have an absolute raft of Russian gear, ranging from Soviet M68 to Afghan all the way through to modern Russian stuff.  I was also in a Modern Russian Airsoft team 'The Bolsheviks' - this was all pre Ukraine mind.  Not one bit of it has seen the light of day since the invasion.  The people that wear this sort of stuff in times like this are deserving of every bit of derision.  

Though equally, when do we draw the line? I saw someone in a 1980s RUC kit on the internet, which personally as an Irishman I find kind edgy.  I wouldn't even dream of wearing anything Nazi related not similarly would I turn up in a camo jacket, armalite and balaclava pretending to be in the IRA....its about respect at the end of the day.

Historically themed kit should, in my opinion be the preserve of historically themed games, where it can be taken in its proper context.....now wheres me petrol bomb?

End of the day, z/wagner shit is claiming hundreds+ lives every day, even today, on both sides, & let's not forget that some of those Russians aren't there out of choice, & others may have gone there having been misled by the dictatorships "free" media & state propaganda. 

On that basis, no site should be allowing these patches to be worn on gamedays, in 30+ years you might get away with them being part of a viable loadout (but I doubt it), but in 2023 they're just symbols of oppression & murder on a massive scale. 

Plus this country now has a sizeable Eastern European/Ukrainian presence which would find it distasteful...don't be a cunt at the end of the day...

 

[Tackle]

You called?

I have an absolute raft of Russian gear, ranging from Soviet M68 to Afghan all the way through to modern Russian stuff.  I was also in a Modern Russian Airsoft team 'The Bolsheviks' - this was all pre Ukraine mind.  Not one bit of it has seen the light of day since the invasion.  The people that wear this sort of stuff in times like this are deserving of every bit of derision.  

Though equally, when do we draw the line? I saw someone in a 1980s RUC kit on the internet, which personally as an Irishman I find kind edgy.  I wouldn't even dream of wearing anything Nazi related not similarly would I turn up in a camo jacket, armalite and balaclava pretending to be in the IRA....its about respect at the end of the day.

Historically themed kit should, in my opinion be the preserve of historically themed games, where it can be taken in its proper context.....now wheres me petrol bomb?

Plus this country now has a sizeable Eastern European/Ukrainian presence which would find it distasteful...don't be a cunt at the end of the day...

Now that would be almost funny, swaggering cuntchops turns up at his local site sporting his controversial patches, coupla visiting Ukrainians give him a "lesson" in humility?

I'm usually the kinda guy that intervenes when shit kicks off, but I think that would definitely be a "stand back & eat popcorn" moment lol?

 

[Asomodai]

Now that would be almost funny, swaggering cuntchops turns up at his local site sporting his controversial patches, coupla visiting Ukrainians give him a "lesson" in humility?

I'm usually the kinda guy that intervenes when shit kicks off, but I think that would definitely be a "stand back & eat popcorn" moment lol?

I am definitely on the side of personal choice, wear what you like taking into account your feelings and personal opinions...

But people making those choices have to personally take responsibility for their actions, own it and face any potential consequences. 

Also it makes it far easier to work out who the steaming piles of excrement are if they are public about it.

 

[padraigthesniper]

Everyone at airsoft is usually a bit weird in one way or the other. I wouldn't ever take anything they say serious and I don't think sites should ever get involved in banning people for being stupid as long as they don't harass or threaten anyone. Wearing a Z patch anywhere in the UK is asking for trouble asking for a beating really. Its all our jobs to be mature adults and resolve disagreements through talking and with words. You can tell the type of people who spend too much time on the internet and probably have a mental disability and obviously we should try to not get too angry at them for being stupid AF. Airsoft is a cool sport and a lot of edgy internet individuals think its real war and have strong beliefs on issues they don't even understand. If I saw a guy wearing a Z patch I would probably ask him why he is wearing it, explain how insensitive that is to wear considering current events and then walk away. Its just as stupid as when you see grown adults getting angry at kids for not taking their hits and screaming, or people arguing over the game. Play the game, have fun and if you don't like something you see have a polite conversation and if its a real issue speak to a marshal.

The German uniform crowd are usually internet edgelords who root for the bad guys because they thinks its cool. Not as bad as wearing a Z patch but still very weird. Airsoft is full of weirdos I can be weird sometimes too lol.

 

[Tackle]

I am definitely on the side of personal choice, wear what you like taking into account your feelings and personal opinions...

But people making those choices have to personally take responsibility for their actions, own it and face any potential consequences. 

Also it makes it far easier to work out who the steaming piles of excrement are if they are public about it.

Definitely, within reason, but for example, & mention this as I know of your previous connections to northern Cyprus, in the south Airsoft is technically illegal, games are usually arranged on private forums & at private property via invite only, & the plod turn a blind eye unless they receive complaints, which is rare. 

Anyway, imagine turning up at your first game invite in full Turkish army loadout, given the islands history you'd probably be swinging from an olive tree by lunchtime. 

That's not to say the Greek Cypriot guys are overly aggressive or patriotic, but some things wouldn't be ignored. 

 

[Cannonfodder]

All this talk of ww2 german uniforms has reminded me of something I overheard at a game last month. There was a someone playing in a vague attempt at a ww2 German loadout with a swastika on his helmet and double lightning bolt patches on his collar. While I thought it was a a bit silly, its what some other kid said that made me think WTF? While stood around waiting for the game briefing he called it a loadout of the bad guys from Call of Duty*. All I could think what are kids being taught in schools these days that they don't recognise symbols of a regime guilty of one of the worst acts of genocide in the past 100 years?

*I'm paraphrasing here as he sounded like someone had ordered Ali G from wish.com