Problem selling a rif

[emilianoksa]

A would be buyer gave me what he thought was his UKARA number. He seemed to think that it wasn't necessary and the site he played at and was a marshal for, could vouch for him. He also said that I could check his site feedback or Linkedin page. I responded that word of mouth from somebody you don't know meant nothing. And how could I check anything if he hadn't given me his name?

I asked him to supply his name and postcode. He sent me a photo of a metal tag with the information. However I had difficulty reading it. In any case I told him that a photo was not necessarily proof of anything.

All I wanted him to do was give me his name, postcode and UKARA number. He messaged me 12 times over a period of seven days and only in the last message typed out all three of his details. The UKARA number he originally gave me, which he said he thought he could remember, was close but not the correct one. He later corrected it.  So far, so good.

When he learned that I intended to check details with a retailer, he told me that anyone providing me with information that an UKARA number had expired would be breaking the law. Apparently it would be a breach of the General Data Protection Regulation. Since he is a former police officer and has also worked as a para legal, I am not sure how to respond.

He believes I don't understand the law, and he may be right. 

Quite frankly the whole business has put me off selling. I have seriously considered just keeping the gun. Would anyone care to comment? 

 

[Iceni]

Sounds like the Guys a cock.

All he had to do was provide a Ukara number, name and postage address. If he can't manage to do that and is generating excuses then there's something wrong.

Actually checking a Ukara number isn't a breach of privacy. All you are doing is checking information that has been provided, and none of that information is sensitive. It doesn't tell you his bank details ect.

And if he is/has been a police officer, and you sell it to him without Ukara then you have just provided them with your own court case. It's time to walk away from the sale.

 

[ak2m4]

From what little I know about GDPR apparently it's acceptable to share data / information without consent if there's a lawful basis.  Since you're accessing this information to check the buyers eligibility under UK law I would have thought this constitutes a "lawful basis" but I'm no "para legal".

However if he's already given you his UKARA he could also grant you permission / consent for the retailer to check this information. 

That's my take on it.   

 

[concretesnail]

The potential buyer is a prick.

Ukara wouldn't release any information he wouldn't be giving you already; name, address, etc. If you're shipping to him.

If a retailer confirms active or non active only then they aren't releasing any personal data either so aren't in breach of data protection, they are confirming only what you have offered.

If they have been a police officer in the past then the lack of intelligence seems to make me glad to think that they no longer are. 

Forget them as a buyer, move on or keep the rif.

 

[emilianoksa]

Thanks for the replies.

Yes, come to think of it, he has already given me the information: his name, postcode and UKARA number. I haven't requested personal information - merely asked for verification of it.

I think I will withdraw it from sale. I am not so desperate for the money.

Thanks again.

 

[Tommikka]

From what little I know about GDPR apparently it's acceptable to share data / information without consent if there's a lawful basis.  Since you're accessing this information to check the buyers eligibility under UK law I would have thought this constitutes a "lawful basis" but I'm no "para legal".

However if he's already given you his UKARA he could also grant you permission / consent for the retailer to check this information. 

That's my take on it.   

Note - for the ‘lawful basis’ context, the OP would be the law checking up on someone. As opposed to using the UKARA as a source to confirm the information provided.

Anyone who would be committing a GDPR offence with UKARA data would be the data holders.

Either the central UKARA register, or the sites register.

The data is collected for specified purposes, which include checking a registered players details are valid.

The data should not be held longer than required ….. so in theory expired memberships could be deleted and validation would come back as failed

But legacy data can be retained for a reasonable period to protect sellers if they needed to legally justify a past sale.

The guy is being a dick, but they are also correct that UKARA details are not required and the seller could ‘legally’ sell based on other ‘evidence’ such as photos of playing 

(But it is up to the seller what they accept as it is the seller who is legally responsible for any UKARA offence)

(((PPS as a former ‘former police officer’, what would be their opinion of gov.uk websites & the motor insurance industry providing open access to whether or not a vehicles registration has valid MOT, road duty & insurance, including a full MOT history of failures ?

That can tell you a fair bit of ‘personal’ information about the owners 

 

[emilianoksa]

Thanks.

It is true that somebody could send me a photo of him skirmishing with a rif, but if I had never met him and didn't know what he looked like,  how would I know it was him?

 

[Tackle]

To echo what has already been said, the wannabee buyer is obviously an idiot, & probably a serial liar, I'd walk away now as he sounds like he'd be a potential serious problem later on. 

PS, in the interests of all members here, in order not to get caught up in this possible entrapment, I'd name the guy ! 

My moneys on him being a sub 18 schoolkid bullshitter. 

 

[Tommikka]

Thanks.

It is true that somebody could send me a photo of him skirmishing with a rif, but if I had never met him and didn't know what he looked like,  how would I know it was him?

I could show you photos of me with Airsoft RIFs, at Airsoft sites & I also own Airsoft RIFs (subject to a case in court …. I own many Paintball RIFs) … and I had successfully imported Airsoft RIFs circa 2007/2008

However I do not play Airsoft, do not intend to play Airsoft and if I intended to purchase an Airsoft RIF could do so under other justifications 

I have run Airsoft events, and could justify a valid purpose if I were to run another - but I have no ‘need’ to self purchase Airsoft RIFs for any such event

….. back to your question …. On the face of it I could produce photos that would appear to show me skirmishing, I would be defrauding you but you could probably ‘reasonably’ claim that you had done sufficient due diligence … unless your due diligence included looking at my post history ….

(if anyone actually went to the effort of tracking down a sale, as I won’t be bringing myself to the wrong kind of attention with the police)

 

[Guest]

I’m agreeing with everybody.
 

I know a few coppers (two are close relatives) and every single one thinks they know the law and can pontificate on anything approaching legal.

They can’t, 99% of the time they’re demonstrably wrong.

I may be generalising here, but my opinion of somebody who volunteers to do a job that’s ordering (or thinks it’s about) ordering other people about, is pretty low.

I know one who is decent, hard working, honest and approaching normal. He’s my bro lol

edited to add, how do you know he’s Police? 

 

[emilianoksa]

Just an update.

I have withdrawn the gun from sale and told him that he was too late in giving me his details. According to what he has told me, I have no right to check them anyway.

He has said he will give me a negative feedback report, and that he will make an enquiry with the information commissioner to verify that I have "lawfully" - I assume he means unlawfully - obtained access to the UKARA database.

I have just checked and he has indeed given me a rotten feedback. He claims he has the transcript that will justify his complaint. So do I. 

 

[Shamal]

Just an update.

I have withdrawn the gun from sale and told him that he was too late in giving me his details. According to what he has told me, I have no right to check them anyway.

He has said he will give me a negative feedback report, and has threatened to make an enquiry with the information commissioner to verify that I have lawfully obtained access to the UKARA database - whatever that means.

He really does sound like a total hot air system on legs!

Tell him to come back when he has grown up a bit.

 

[concretesnail]

Just an update.

I have withdrawn the gun from sale and told him that he was too late in giving me his details. According to what he has told me, I have no right to check them anyway.

He has said he will give me a negative feedback report, and that he will make an enquiry with the information commissioner to verify that I have "lawfully" - I assume he means unlawfully - obtained access to the UKARA database.

I have just checked and he has indeed given me a rotten feedback. He claims he has the transcript that will justify his complaint. So do I. 

I wouldn't worry, someone with their head that far up their own arse will end up with shit on their face in the end.

Just be glad to be rid of them.

 

[Enid_Puceflange]

Just an update.

I have withdrawn the gun from sale and told him that he was too late in giving me his details. According to what he has told me, I have no right to check them anyway.

He has said he will give me a negative feedback report, and that he will make an enquiry with the information commissioner to verify that I have "lawfully" - I assume he means unlawfully - obtained access to the UKARA database.

I have just checked and he has indeed given me a rotten feedback. He claims he has the transcript that will justify his complaint. So do I. 

What a COCK

I hope he’s a member on here and reads all of this?

 

[Tackle]

1967PF44 was the attempted buyer, aka the bag of bullshit?, 

Clearly can't be trusted, beware anyone who he attempts to buy from. 

 

[Enid_Puceflange]

1967PF44 was the attempted buyer, aka the bag of bullshit?, 

Clearly can't be trusted, beware anyone who he attempts to buy from. 

Oh dear

I have a funny feeling I may have dealt with this chap

Is the buyer in Bonnie Scotland by chance?

Edit:

just checked his profile

Indeed I have ?

 

[Tackle]

Oh dear

I have a funny feeling I may have dealt with this chap

Is the buyer in Bonnie Scotland by chance?

Edit:

just checked his profile

Indeed I have ?

How did that go ?, Lots of bs & bravado ??

 

[Enid_Puceflange]

PM’d ??

 

[alxndrhll]

Had a couple of interactions with the same person. Granted mine were more weird insistances of a price they'd be willing to pay/messaging me purely to say they thought what I was selling was overpriced... but they had zero interest in buying it. From memory the former was a Marui G34, and the latter some PTS P-Mags.

Perhaps just a chancer, perhaps genuinely thinks they're some sort of second hand airsoft pricing gate keeper. Either way, best not to make any assumptions on how genuine their claims are. Ultimately, as I'm sure you knew before the creation of this thread, it's up to you as the seller as to who you are and are not comfortable selling to. Any legal elements aside, the decision as to whether you do or don't sell something to someone is entirely at your own discretion (and tends to be dictated purely by how much the money is wanted/needed in most cases).

 

[Cannonfodder]

I say you've done the right thing and ended the sale as there's more red flags than a Soviet mayday parade

best not to make any assumptions on how genuine their claims are.

I will. If he's an ex copper and a para legal then I'm a former porn star and next pope

@1967PF44got any thing to say? Or should we all assume you're an untrustworthy cunt?