Acceptable rates of fire

[EDcase]

How come every topic I start ends up messy ?

Stirring the pot ?

 

[Enid_Puceflange]

Stirring the pot ?

“Jack The Rippers “ ?

 

[snuff]

When I was a paintballer (??) many moons ago we had an event where a ripper turned up at lunchtime,I don't think anyone was the least bit interested much to the distress of the organisers who'd arranged it for "us".I can understand it if it's a stag do.

 

[Shamal]

When I was a paintballer (??) many moons ago we had an event where a ripper turned up at lunchtime,I don't think anyone was the least bit interested much to the distress of the organisers who'd arranged it for "us".I can understand it if it's a stag do.

A ripper? Wot a knife weilding maniac intent on parting people from their vital organs??

Or maybe a stripper??

Much better proposition( dribble)?

Of course I would have removed myself from the site immediately! ? 

Regards 

 

[Cannonfodder]

I take it that was an over 18s only event? If not the organisers could've got themselves in serious trouble with child protection laws

Gimmicks like some bint getting her tits out make me wonder how good the site actually is if they have to use cheap stunts like this to pull in the punters. Concentrate on making sure the games are well run and you'll get players wanting to come back.

 

[snuff]

I take it that was an over 18s only event?

Yes it was a tournament for regulars (dare I say friends by association..) and a complete waste of time.As most if not all I would have preferred the time used playing.

 

[PopRocket123]

I take it that was an over 18s only event? If not the organisers could've got themselves in serious trouble with child protection laws

Gimmicks like some bint getting her tits out make me wonder how good the site actually is if they have to use cheap stunts like this to pull in the punters. Concentrate on making sure the games are well run and you'll get players wanting to come back.

Well if they're getting a cheap one then they've already put themselves on the back foot

 

[Rogerborg]

Not really having fun to just inform someone of the facts, how they handle the information you give them is all on them, you're doing nothing wrong by doing that.

I meant, having fun by waving at them when they were falling short.

In those situations, most of the time the person shooting at you will be convinced that they're hitting you (their gnu shoots 200m like a laser, legit), so they've already flagged you as a cheater.

So: stand there and shoot back; head for cover in case they figure it out and raise their aim; or wind them up more with a wave?

It's very wrong to do the last one, and I certainly would recommend it. Why, if you did it to me, I'd be livid.  

How come every topic I start ends up messy ?

Nobody pays attention to the objective.  

 

[Impulse]

I meant, having fun by waving at them when they were falling short.

In those situations, most of the time the person shooting at you will be convinced that they're hitting you (their gnu shoots 200m like a laser, legit), so they've already flagged you as a cheater.

So: stand there and shoot back; head for cover in case they figure it out and raise their aim; or wind them up more with a wave?

It's very wrong to do the last one, and I certainly would recommend it. Why, if you did it to me, I'd be livid.  

I had someone twerking at me last game day from a long range (about 75m ish), right in the middle of the path. Clearly he didn't think my VSR could reach out that far...

He was wrong  

 

[Adolf Hamster]

In those situations, most of the time the person shooting at you will be convinced that they're hitting you (their gnu shoots 200m like a laser, legit), so they've already flagged you as a cheater.

the other fun one is if they're within your range, and assume because you can shoot that far so can they.

 

[Rogerborg]

the other fun one is if they're within your range, and assume because you can shoot that far so can they.

I was DMRing. Player-marshal was not.

You think he'd know better. He did not.

 

[AirSniper]

Hi folks

Having had our last game of the year today, there was a good turn out of first time players using site rental guns (JG G36’s if it matters)

There was the usual mixture of folks using aeg’s, snipers and some HPA players.

now normally I’m a live & let live attitude kinda guy, but I did see a few of the new player heads go down after lunchtime in the last few games, had a quick chat with them and they commented on the significant difference between the site guns and some of the regulars aeg’s V the hpa players

The hpa guns were easily having a ROF of circa 35-40 a second, and in the game areas where full auto was allowed due to engagement rules, they were simply suppressing the new players with their ROF & slightly aggressive play style.

The site doesn’t (yet) have a ROF cap, but that may start next year

I have to add , this is an outdoor woodland site,  NOT an urban or CQB / indoor

1: is it fair to cap hpa players play style / ROF ?

2: What’s an acceptable ROF to allow “fair game play”?

Answers on a postcard please to:

Grumpy Old Man

Wants to see the new player’s encouraged 

Not a one time player never to be seen again street

?

Rate of fire on some rifles and pistols are ridiculous.
High rates of fire spoil game play, turns players away.

HPA is a menace in CQB, I have seen 20 or so new players come and play once and call it a day, the comments I hear are often centred around "I can't hit anyone because I keep getting hit" or that they can't return fire because they are unable to break cover because the bb's are coming in thick and fast.

From my observations in game, HPA's ruin game play on indoor CQB, it is more suited to outdoor use than indoor.

The main issue IMHO is that there are too many sites where there are varying rules and this leads to confusion on new sites and why rules get broken and people get pissy with people not taking hits, one site I know says that kids are not targets and your hits on the kids don't count... well great, teach cheating to the young.

There needs to be a set of standardised rules that can be agreed upon that is a guide and also those setting the rules need to have insurance companies onboard as they are the guys that have to cover sites for liability cover, so a site can't stipulate different rules that are dangerous to players as the insurance company would be on the hook.

Players that want higher rates of fire and power should hire venues and advertise it as a free for all and go shoot yourselves up to your hearts content, leave airsoft to those who want to enjoy game play and not get beat up in a game, there is a certain thing that is called enjoyment that can rapidly diminish and the sooner players recognise this (the ones insisting on high power and rates of fire) wake up to this fact, the sport might improve to attract more players.
 

As I say, if you want higher power, go airgun or powder round shooting or clay pigeon shooting...

 

[Adolf Hamster]

The main issue IMHO is that there are too many sites where there are varying rules and this leads to confusion on new sites and why rules get broken and people get pissy with people not taking hits, one site I know says that kids are not targets and your hits on the kids don't count... well great, teach cheating to the young

ahh the bane of many an airsoft argument.

"headshots don't count".... on a site where they did....

"he didn't take a bang kill".....  at a site with no enforced bang rule.....

"gun hits count"....  at a site where they didn't.....

even worse is when a site can't even be consistent within itself, had games where the initial brief was X zone was out of play, except when the game bogged down the owner told one team they could use that zone, leading to a lot of "i hit you!" "yeah but you're out of bounds so it doesn't count" arguments.

sites should really work out exactly what variants of rules they're going to enforce, put them up on a board, then consistently enforce them. for example i don't care if a bang rule states you have to take them, if you take them voluntarily, or you never take them, so long as i know exactly which variant i'm playing to and wether or not to be prepared for folk trying to pull a john wick.

 

[Rogerborg]

put them up on a board

This should be the default at sites.  You could skip most of the briefings, just point at the board and say "Read it, no excuses."

The eye-twitcher for me is when you ask a marshal (e.g.) "Oh, do gun hits count here?" and they go "Uhhhh..."

 

[John_W]

I take it that was an over 18s only event? If not the organisers could've got themselves in serious trouble with child protection laws

Gimmicks like some bint getting her tits out make me wonder how good the site actually is if they have to use cheap stunts like this to pull in the punters. Concentrate on making sure the games are well run and you'll get players wanting to come back.

Closest I ever got to a stripper on site was Frank dropping his trousers to check for damage after I raked him knee to crotch point blank with an AK.

 

[Tackle]

I take it that was an over 18s only event? If not the organisers could've got themselves in serious trouble with child protection laws

Gimmicks like some bint getting her tits out make me wonder how good the site actually is if they have to use cheap stunts like this to pull in the punters. Concentrate on making sure the games are well run and you'll get players wanting to come back.

Nope, there was definitely low to mid teens there, boys & GIRLS ffs, apparently the reason for it was a mate of the organiser (a dubious character called Dino), was opening a strip club in the Canterbury area, & between them they thought it would be a good publicity exercise....... Twats lol. 

As for the site itself, it only ran for a short while as the place was scheduled for demolition, but I believe Dino is still involved in running games in East Kent somewhere, I'm sure someone will be along shortly to confirm ? 

 

[TheFull9]

Which ones?  Just so I know where to avoid obviously.

 

[MAX DICKER]

Pussys, dicks and arseholes.

Airsoft has always been this way, I find I just take on the challenge of out smarting them and making the way they play ineffective for them.

I do completely get that dick players don’t do any good for potential newbs.

However of all airsoft gripes dishonesty and non hit taking are the game day killers for me.

This pretty much sums up what I was going to say. And I've been on both sides of the fence. About 10 years ago I ran a rif with a crazy ROF, can't remember what but way more than 35. Now I have a GBBR and whatever ROF I can achieve in semi.

thing is, unless an action is explicitly prohibited at a site,  like running ROF beasts, then people will do it, for a large variety of reasons.

I'm never in favour of clamping down on stuff like this, it's just a hobby. If that's what some people like to do, so be it. Adapt and overcome.

 

[Emergencychimps]

What a great thread/conversation. God I've missed forums!

Loads of great ideas suggested but as had been mentioned the dick's will be dick's regardless of the rules. 

My recommendation would be to have more specialist games. Gunman run a skirmish weekend (anything goes within reason) once a month and a filmsim (ammo limits, different medic rules and teams by camo, mid caps encouraged). I've never seen another site do similar, the occasional "milsim" day or gas and shotgun but that's about it. My main moan about gunman is I have attended a few of their advertised filmsim games and they were effectively how they do skirmish days (I've done them when run as filmsim and it's very different). 

It's very rare that event organisers are explicit enough about what each event type is and how it differs. For ages there was chat about what milsim is, it never really resolved, people just got bored of the conversation. I'm not encouraging we have that conversation but if organisers put on an event and could list what it is for and what it isn't. Skirmish - hpa allowed, no ammo limits, some respawning in field as per individual game rules. Etc you as the player then know what you're signing up for and I think the differentiated game would draw more players in from further around. 

Ultimately I think we are paying for the experience from the day and while sites can't guarantee if you're going to have a good day, they can be explicit about the rules for that event and have events that cater to different groups within the community. 

I saw an event recently for just tm recoil owners only, while I could have gone I didn't think it would make the game more enjoyable but it was nice to see the option. 

 

[colinjallen]

What a great thread/conversation. God I've missed forums!

Loads of great ideas suggested but as had been mentioned the dick's will be dick's regardless of the rules. 

My recommendation would be to have more specialist games. Gunman run a skirmish weekend (anything goes within reason) once a month and a filmsim (ammo limits, different medic rules and teams by camo, mid caps encouraged). I've never seen another site do similar, the occasional "milsim" day or gas and shotgun but that's about it. My main moan about gunman is I have attended a few of their advertised filmsim games and they were effectively how they do skirmish days (I've done them when run as filmsim and it's very different). 

It's very rare that event organisers are explicit enough about what each event type is and how it differs. For ages there was chat about what milsim is, it never really resolved, people just got bored of the conversation. I'm not encouraging we have that conversation but if organisers put on an event and could list what it is for and what it isn't. Skirmish - hpa allowed, no ammo limits, some respawning in field as per individual game rules. Etc you as the player then know what you're signing up for and I think the differentiated game would draw more players in from further around. 

Ultimately I think we are paying for the experience from the day and while sites can't guarantee if you're going to have a good day, they can be explicit about the rules for that event and have events that cater to different groups within the community. 

I saw an event recently for just tm recoil owners only, while I could have gone I didn't think it would make the game more enjoyable but it was nice to see the option. 

Imperium run defined types of events: skirmishes, Ground War and Battlesim, along with the occasional Milsim.  Each has its own set of rules on mag types, ammo limits etc and different levels of command and control.  There is a core set of players who tend to attend all of them, but also some who only attend one or two types.